Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7843
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| 01/23/2012 9:16 AM |
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| Something else I thought about is I work focus as a totally separate exercise. It is a great thing to work on when you are watching TV. When the commercial comes on do a few seconds of focus exercises. Keep it short and sweet and reward. Then if you want to work focus when you do the heeling. Stop, put her in a sit and work your focus. I suspect you may be trying to combine too many things at once. Let her focus on one thing at a time. Think about it, you are teaching heeling, loose leash, focus and she has all those good smells and interesting things to see. That is allot of mental stimulation for a puppy. As pixie said, simplify. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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weerubbertummy
Ayrshire, Scotland
MH
Posts:726
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| 01/23/2012 9:18 AM |
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Thanks guys! I did far too little in the way of leash training with Kintra, and unfortunately it made for a constant battle whenever we took her anywhere, and we never really managed to solve the problem completely. I'm just a little unsure of how much on-leash freedom i should give Keely just now in case it leads to problems in the future. Thanks for the advice, i'll let up on her a little!
Luckily, she's pretty thick skinned and too enthusiastic to take anything to heart :0) |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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weerubbertummy
Ayrshire, Scotland
MH
Posts:726
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| 01/23/2012 9:29 AM |
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| The puppy agility trainer has been really pushing the "watch me" command so i'll persevere with that (think its the same thing), esp when out and about. |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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weerubbertummy
Ayrshire, Scotland
MH
Posts:726
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| 01/23/2012 10:35 AM |
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| Just took her out for a walk along the road, but with no particular training, just letting her sniff (and quick walking in between to keep her attention) and she was great. She also ignored the cars which is a relief as i've been just standing at the corner of the road with her for the last couple of days, it seems to have paid off. |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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weerubbertummy
Ayrshire, Scotland
MH
Posts:726
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| 02/03/2012 7:39 AM |
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Ok, this old chestnut again! I've been giving Keely some puppy freedom to sniff about whilst out walking and alternating this with trying to keep her attention so she walks on a loose lead. But the very second that i'm not actively keeping her attention she reverts back to the sniffing. Now, this isnt the tiny puppy slightly pulling wandering sniff of 3 weeks ago, this is now 12kg's worth of nose-down, zigzagging, pulling out front and all over the place, "dont care if your there, mum" sniff-pulling. She's like a bloodhound!
Having witnessed other gsp owners and having had my own experience of the gsp-walkies settings, ie stop or go-full-steam-ahead, i did expect this to come about sooner than later, but she's so much more nose-down than Kintra and really does go deaf. I have been engaging her nose and distracting her with toys but i feel that i cant bribe her for the whole duration of her walk. I know she's still a young pup but i think i can see a future of really miserable walks ahead of me - i'm pretty sure this is going to be a deeply ingrained habit with Keely. Any suggestions? besides permanently dangling cooked chicken in front of her duriing walks for the rest of her life? |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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weerubbertummy
Ayrshire, Scotland
MH
Posts:726
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| 02/03/2012 7:39 AM |
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Oops, double post. may as well use it. Meant to add, i dont have a problem with getting and keeping her attention whilst walking. It's just that i'm working on alternating having her attention with allowing her to enjoy the sniffs, in the hope of building up to a permanently loose leash until i give her the release to have a wander on my terms. |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 02/03/2012 8:17 AM |
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My opinion:
you are dealing with a puppy and everything is new and you are dealing with puppy energy.
I like to give "puppy time" the first few minutes of the walk. I don't like all the engagement it takes to keep the attention so I simply do not allow the dog to use its nose after the initial few minutes of being allowed to do so,but I do not prevent no nose use for more than a minute or two - then I allow for nose time and then back to no ose time.
I gradually lengthen no nose time - latent learning is your friend here.
I use collar (not ecollar) corrections,voice and movement to deter the nose use. Not necessarily focusing on me - just keep those feet moving forward and nose off the ground. Keep the leash shorter so this becomes a cue,walk a bit faster
(like I have some place to go now)but not hectic,keep distance from approaching trees,hydrants,grass,etc. Even at nose time I control the walk - when she is sniffing,tracking call her name and walk in another direction. This will teach her to pay attention to you while she is busy. Bend down and tie your shoe - see how long ittakes for her to come on over - then praise,get up and walk - this way you control.
Dogs can't lead if they are following.
So, don't allow too much "in front" time either. Either stop and wait for her to come back or call her back and when she gets there wait a few seconds and walk on when YOU decide it's time to walk on, in the direction you want to go.
So many times I would do this and when I started to walk on - the dog just assumed the direction and lead on - so, I sharply turned and he got the message.
Also,if they are too out in front of me, I turn into them , I don't knee bash them. But, I changed my mind and want to go in a different direction and too bad for you that you were in front and now I need to trip over you. Keep in line and this won't happen - is the message.
Anyway - it does take a while for dogs to get it. it's not the teaching that's at fault.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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weerubbertummy
Ayrshire, Scotland
MH
Posts:726
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| 02/03/2012 9:02 AM |
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| Phew!! Thanks. It's so easy to doubt everything i'm doing. I head out with full confidence in what i'm going to do, then when she gets distracted/bored/agitated/frustrated etc the doubt creeps in. I keep forgetting how long it will take to sink in. |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1190
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| 02/03/2012 11:21 AM |
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I can't offer advise but for the sake of your sanity wante to let you know you aremt alone in this hair pulling task lol. We work indoors both leash and off leash with "follow" which is like a heel for us (but we don't care if she ever actually really heels we just want loose leash). She also does great in our neighborhood because she is somewhat over those sights and smells I suppose. But as I introduce her to more distracting areas we typically start from scratch. I have found a few things helpful 1. Allowing her some "go sniff" time in between expectation to "walk nicely" 2. We bought her a pack to wear (mostly for this summer) but I have found it puts her in "I have a task to do" mode vs pull and sniff everything mode and 3. When all else fails I do use an easy lead (only in super novel and distracting areas where she has to be hurting her neck tugging or I am having to correct too much... It instantly stops the pulling so we can work on walking nicely and focus... But I don't get in the habit of using it regularly as I feel it only prevents the pulling vs teaching not to pull.
But mostly... Patience patience patience... If I feel weak in my patience I won't even attempt loose lead training and I will train other obedience and reward with off leash play. I am also trusting my assumption that some of it will lessen with age and consistency... She has a right to explore her world right now and I try to remember that too and lower my expectations slightly lol
(ps- please overlook all the typos in my posts... I am disaster on my phone keyboard and it typically changed what I am typing to whatever it feels like anyway  |
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weerubbertummy
Ayrshire, Scotland
MH
Posts:726
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| 02/03/2012 12:24 PM |
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Good ole predictive text, it's a pain! It's difficult but i have managed to acknowledge when i'm not in the correct frame of mind ie completely impatient with the potential to become bad tempered! I think it's so difficult to imagine the little pulling machine walking to heel at a later stage, but with the correct handling, they will.
With Kintra, we didnt put in the consistency required for loose leash training and we always regretted it. And of course, it would always become an issue on holiday and in new and exciting places. I must say though, at just over 2 years old, she definately showed signs of slackening off a little on the lead - although in all honesty, i'll never know if it was a case of "calming down" or whether the cancer was partially responsible.
Either way, it's definately an issue for all gsp owners from what i can tell. If anyone out there knows otherwise, please give us some hope ;0) |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7843
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| 02/03/2012 1:41 PM |
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| There is hope. Three of mine are pretty good on leash and I actually will walk my three oldest all on leash together from time to time. That said at least with one of mine I have to be vigilant because if she sees a critter and I am not paying attention, I might get a jerk. This has actually happened twice where I ended up on the ground after Halo decided the leash wouldn't keep her from getting a rabbit I never saw until too late. The second time it happened I ended up with bruised ribs. Ouch! Still they my three oldest are all very good when walking on a leash and they don't pull. Now the baby still has allot of learning to do. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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weerubbertummy
Ayrshire, Scotland
MH
Posts:726
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| 02/03/2012 2:05 PM |
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| I have to ask the question - in general, are gsp's pretty bad on the leash compared to other breeds? |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1190
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| 02/03/2012 2:29 PM |
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| Maybe it is just their outdoor I dependence vs that of other breeds. Bella has shown she is perfectly capable of walking nicely when asked... But she has also shown plenty that he is perfectly capable of being sassy and stubborn but didnt I just describe any woman? Teehee |
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weerubbertummy
Ayrshire, Scotland
MH
Posts:726
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| 04/07/2012 3:30 PM |
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Smatulewicz - was just reading your post on e collars and wanted to update on the leash training thing cos i'm making progress with Keely. I dont know if this will help you as i dont really know the environments you do on-leash walks with Bella.
I had the same experience as you i think - Keely is fantastic off-leash in almost every aspect but terrible on-leash. We usually walk along a country road (with traffic) to get to the river walk and she generally pulls the whole way. I've started walking her in the middle of the road (away from the scent-laden verge) and constantly reinforce a click/treat regimen in the middle of the road, increasing the number of clicks between treats (i click every time she's in the correct position and looking at me). I then try to predict when she's about to get bored and i allow her back to the verge. I then reinforce the click/treat at the verge a couple of times then move back to the middle of the road and expect pretty much constant attention there. Her time spent ignoring me/sniffing the verge is lessening and the time spent on a loose leash in the middle of the road AND near the verge is increasing. Breakthrough  think the consistency is finally paying off - hang on in there x |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1190
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| 04/08/2012 12:09 PM |
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Glad you're making progress!! I decided two things 1. I was expecting too much and 2. I was definitely expecting too much for something i didn't work on everyday. She honestly is not a frantic tug ahead girl... she just likes to be about a shoulder length ahead (fully body max),which I really don't mind... less tripping over each other. She does tug when she is very excited (like if she sees we are headed toward the lake). She understands though, where she is supposed to be, as when I stop dead in my tracks...she hauls it backward right to my side. IF I worked on this daily, she'd be a dream I think. Unfortunately... I prefer off leash walks as much as she does. When the weather gets nice, we will be walking all over and she'll continue to learn. I no longer use her head lead.. I got a tiny loop leash... I put both it on, and her longer lead (for when I want to allow her to "go sniff"), but she feels the tension much sooner on the loop leash and doesn't try to walk so far ahead.
But honestly, if she is a bit ahead but not tugging like a maniac..I'm content with this. I suppose I want a loose leash walk rather than a perfect solid heel |
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