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Rose
MH
Posts:362
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| 08/29/2011 4:48 PM |
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I've never had this happen before, and am wondering what is the best course of action after this, or if anyone has any advice.
Our friend came onto the patio/house entrance, surprising our GSP. The dog then jumped up and nipped our friends arm. Fortunately our friend was quite understanding and was not upset, and was surprised himself.
I however, am quite concerned, and would like to fix this. This may be part of a bigger picture as he also shows insecurity/fear around the house and reactivity towards other dogs. Examples include being scared of the vaccuum, garden hoses, houseplants(if he bumps into them).
I am leaning towards classes/professionals, but want to know if there's more I can do at home, good books on this topic, etc.
Open to suggestions.
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4449
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| 08/29/2011 6:59 PM |
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It is upsetting.
Thanks to your friend for being understanding.
The bite was due to insecurity.
Can it be overcome at some point? Maybe. I think yes,but caution may always be needed.
Would I seek professional help? Only if I thought I could not do it myself.
I would start with obedience - nothing like being told what to do - this way the dog does not have to consider options.
Take control - obedience - then the dog already knows someone is in charge and is relieved of this responsibilty.
If the dog believes somone else is going to protect it, then they will not be 'forced' into making decisions.
I would institute this mentality before I added pressure from added socialization.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7839
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| 08/29/2011 7:19 PM |
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First you have to prevent this from happening again as the next person might not be so understanding. So, if you have anyone coming over I would make sure the dog is crated in another room.
Second you need to get to the bottom of the issue. I suspect that his reaction as pixie said is based in insecurity and not understanding who is in charge. You don't say how long you have had your dog nor do you say anything about why he was in rescue. I think both of those questions may give insight into the issue.
It also sounds like you are uncertain as to how to proceed. The wrong direction could make this worse, so I would recommend you seek a professional animal behaviorist that you can work with one on one. A class is fine for teaching obedience, etc, but you have a behavioral issue that needs to be addresses.
Also, be sure you have ruled out any medical issues too.
I do believe you can get through this, but it will require dedication, consistency and patience from you and your family.
Good luck and keep us posted as to your progress.
As for good books, I would recommend The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell. Also, Aggression in Dogs by Brenda Aloff. Both are good books and may give you some insights, but I would still strongly encourage you to seek the help of a professional animal behaviorist since you are dealing with a dog who behaved aggressively to another human. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Rose
MH
Posts:362
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| 08/29/2011 8:36 PM |
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If I were to describe the personality of the dog, I would describe him as being nervous.
Pixie bee, by obedience, do you mean classes or do you mean by setting the standards high and enforcing those sit/stay/down/here commands at home, outside and in different circumstances?
Texas belle, I will read the book by Brenda Aloff. I have read Leader of the Pack based on your recommendation and that has helped. I'll look into an animal behaviorist, hopefully I can find someone good.
Is there a chance this might be medical? Is that something that should be ruled out as well? |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7839
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| 08/29/2011 9:29 PM |
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I would talk to the vet as it is always good to rule out something medical, and yes it could be medical. If he isn't neutered, having him neutered may help. Just remember that it takes several months for the testosterone to go away when you have a male dog neutered, so it might not make a difference right away.
By obedience I suspect that pixie means either in class or at home, get him into a training routine. It helps build confidence in the dog and also puts you in a position of authority. I don't think you have a bad dog, but a dog that is afraid and unsure. You need to build his confidence and show him that your are in control and he does not have to make any decisions. I would also suggest you teach him to sit in a specific spot when someone comes to the door. Put a rug down and train him that that is his spot. This should give him a focus when someone comes over. Good luck in finding someone. And keep us posted. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4449
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| 08/30/2011 4:43 AM |
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One way to determine if you have an aggressive dog :
does he acclimate after a period of time?
For example - many dogs appear aggresive when they first see another dog but after they are allowed to adjust to the other dog's presence they calm down as tho they were friends for ever.
Is your dog attacking people or waiting for them to get close then giving a nip
(a nip can break skin)
By obedience I mean at home,if possible - the socialization of a class may be fine at this time but I don't know how confident YOU feel.
If it were me -
I would begin with establishing 3 commands :
1)sit (which means stay) - remote sit,while dog is moving away/toward me and while dog is preoccupied/running away/toward me
2)here: make here a command,make sure when he comes he sits down,most people do a front sit but it really doesn't matter, as long as he comes and sits
3)heel,including heeling backwards
When you feel confident that he knows these commands begin by having friends come over - when the door bell rings put him in a sit,make sure he is constantly watched - this is an exercise. Then after the human meet/greet heel him to a safe place - a favorite rug,wherever and sit him, have the person approach his area and gradually get closer to him - maintain a conversation with the person so they are paying attention to you and not the dog. Let the dog acclimate to them,see they mean no harm -LET THE DOG decide to either approach or avoid -
NEVER EVER 'force' a dog to react - sometimes we push a dog
The dog IS ON SIT AT THIS POINT - he should not break sit unless told to do so
What I do is call the dog to me(calmly and firmly),give a calm stroke along the shoulder and walk away- you should only turn your back ever so slightly so your presence is felt by your dog - YOU will be your dog's security
If possible - I would video the exercise
If this elicits a negative reaction in the dog then a behaviorist would be required
One thing about obedience - it is not a request - it is a command and there should be consequences for failure to obey - be fair,quick,the consquence needs to match the crime(so many people are either to harsh or too soft) and move on.
This is not going to be a quick fix - if you don't think you can dedicate yourselves then give him to someone who will
I am one to stick to the end - it's a loyalty thing
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Rose
MH
Posts:362
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| 08/31/2011 11:16 AM |
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A trip to the vet will be in order as he's got bloody diarrhea again, we will talk to the vet about aggression as well. (Whoops, my apologies Texas Belle, I just re-read and realized you mentioned this in your 1st reply.)
Frustrating knowing that the dog may just be mirroring my own insecurities and inconsistencies.
I would describe it as a nip, there was a single bruise where his tooth hit. There was no charging, holding or shaking. Even then, we find this unacceptable and don't want it to lead to worse.
I've ordered the book by Brenda Aloff, I'm sure it will be an interesting read. I've also been reading previous posts on this topic.
We are concerned about neutering whether it might make things worse? There have been other times where other fixed male dogs attacked him because he was intact, at least two had made contact. Will he become another fixed male attacking unfixed males?
I realize my fault for ever allowing this to arise for in the first place, he should have never been allowed to greet the person. We will be prepared next time anytime comes in, starting with putting him away and hopefully moving up to the sit.
Thank you both for your help. Your suggestions will not be taken for granted.
Yes, I feel confident in doing the described obedience commands at home. Videos I can do. No, I do not feel confident in a class yet with what has been happening.
This will take a lot of time and consistency between both DH and I (sometimes the hardest part). I am currently up for the challenge as long as I am armed with the proper knowledge and skills and can see a progression instead of things getting worse.
Been debating whether to start with the Leerburg groundwork method first or to move right into enforcing the obedience at home and around w/distractions. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4449
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| 08/31/2011 11:56 AM |
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Ok,
try these two things.
1) in stressful situations will he ignore otherwise obeyed commands? If so, you ned to work on this
2)dogs work in only ONE mode at a time. When you see the body language above he is in fear mode. Learn to read and predict situations and him well. If you engage the dog in another activity,say a prey/play activity and keep him there you will be teaching him a valuble lesson -That he CAN be in stressful situations and no harm will come of it. Keeping the dog engaged can be difficult and I would start by engaging when there is no stress, then when a stress factor enters the picture start engagement ASAP and work him away from the stress or a comfortable distance.
Do not allow him to become aggressive during this prey/play activity - if he does sit him,heel him, whatever but get him in obedience mode(handler mode).
You'll figure things out and you'll improvise as you go. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3133
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| 09/02/2011 7:49 AM |
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Personally I don't think neutering a male dog makes them want to attack intact males...I think the attack thing is in the dog regardless of neutering or being intact...however I do think that neutering can help level off hormones that might be messing with the dogs mentallity....
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7839
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| 09/02/2011 10:13 AM |
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| I agree with Splat on the neutering. I have never seen it make a dog agressive, but I have seen it settle down the male hormones and calm the dog some. Allot depends on when you neuter, but I believe it can be helpful. I know with my boy who I neutered at age 3 YO, he has calmed considerable and is not as quick to do the male posturing with another male. It does take several months for the male hormones to susbside in a male who is neutered when fully mature. Likewise they are still able to imprenate a female for about 30 days after neutering too as the sperm are viable for a while after neutering. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Rose
MH
Posts:362
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| 09/02/2011 6:58 PM |
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Update.
I've had him tied to me wherever I go for the last four days. It seems to have reduced his guard-fulness when hear hears a noise outside the house, and around items around the house. In hindsight, I think his guarding has been increasing since we got the second dog. Have stopped off leash, coddling, eye contact, etc, seems to help a bit. Been working on accepting that he may never be a dog I can coddle, he seems to take it an exploit it.
And yes, '1) in stressful situations will he ignore otherwise obeyed commands?'. Will plan to work on that using the suggested actions. I'm trying to think of a prey/play activity that he will engage in. Doesn't currently play ball, etc. when outside. However when we've come across live birds, that has worked in engaging him that he pays no attention to other dogs.
Been working on a basic "sit" around the house with distractions. He shows a lot of nervousness/excitement, for example getting him to sit when we are getting ready to go out the door - he sits, then gets up immediately, then around in circles. I put him back in a sit, he fidgets, then will sit on the side of his bum or lay down instead. I think I need to read up on corrections.
Did a leash walk around the block, I put him in a sit when there was another dog across the street, Casey got reactive broke the sit and barked, but I was able to put him back after the other dog moved on.
Glad to hear that you guys have not seen that neutering increasing aggression, we must have just had too many bad experiences in the past with dogs that just happened to be neutered.
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Rose
MH
Posts:362
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| 09/13/2011 4:42 PM |
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Update on Casey
He will be getting the snip tomorrow. Hope that helps a bit, but I don't think it will solve the whole picture. After observing him carefully in the last two weeks, he's got a lot of fear/insecurity.
Changes that we have made:
- no more letting them loose on the deck
- no more eye contact unless a command is being given (Is it possible for a dog to give WAY TOO MUCH eye contact around the house? This seem like the case with him.)
- he's been tied to us wherever in the house we go for the last two weeks. Seems to have helped his fear of household objects. He almost seems happy to be tied to us.
- he's now put away in a room when we are gone, no more free reign of the house
- we're now using feeding time as a training opportunity for working on "Sit" and "Come Here"
- been reading the book by Brenda Aloff and wow, that has helped lots, lots of useful information
- and working on obedience, obedience, obedience. No more excessively repeating commands and letting him get away with not complying.
I'm happy to say that his barking at the door has been reduced 95% when he hears a sound outside or when we are coming home. He is starting to appear more "calm," but still displays a lot of insecurity. I think that managing this will be a continual process.
Areas I think we need to work on: 1. Casey's dogs skills suck. and 2. Our consistency skills suck.
Will keep working on it. |
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kpwlee
Raleigh, NC
MH
Posts:992
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| 09/13/2011 7:19 PM |
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Two other good books are Feisty Fido and Scaredy Dog.
Great work so far and continued good luck in helping to build his confidence |
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It's Bugsy's world...
http://dailyzoomie.blogspot.com/ |
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DrWiffel
Prior Lake, MN
MH
Posts:175
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| 09/14/2011 3:13 PM |
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| Glad to hear that you are having some success with it. Keep it up! I'm a first time dog owner myself so I can't really say, but seems that Casey's starting coming around. |
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