acolic
Posts:8
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| 12/20/2009 6:19 PM |
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Hi,
looking for a bit of advice on training my GSP to retreive. I've taken him to a park for the two weeks to work on retreiving.
He is very motivated. Once we get to the park and pull out the bumper he goes wild. For the first while I would throw the bumper and he would run to it like mad.
He would somewhat retrive it to me. He would run up to me in my vacinity about 2-3 feet and I'd step on the check cord, and coax him to me. I'd let him have the bumper for a while and when he dropped it I'd pick it up and we would do it all over again. I've kept the sessions short to keep his enthusiasim up.
Today we worked on steadying him at the line. I put him in a sit/stay and threw the bumper. He's breaking most of the time but since he's on the checkcord I'm able to stop him, put him back into the stay, make him wait and the release him.
My question is how do I work on getting him to retrieve to hand.
thanks
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7835
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| 12/20/2009 6:50 PM |
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| I pull up a chair and sit in it. If the dog brings me the bumper the game continues. If he doesn't I pull out a book and read. Soon enough they catch on. The key is you do not do anything to get the bumper, the dog must bring it to you. At first you may get in one throw, but very quickly he will be bringing it to you and putting it in your lap or hand (you tell him where). Remember you are in control of this game and he is not. Also, don't forget to let him know when he does it right. If he does it wrong, respond with silence, or say oops guess we are done and pick everything up and go inside, game over. Or just sit and read until he brings the bumper to you. If it takes too long for him to bring you the bumper, pick everything up and go inside. Good luck!! |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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oneal3337
Great Falls, Mt
MH
Posts:107
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| 12/20/2009 7:45 PM |
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| I would take him to a trained retrieve clinic (force fetch). If there aren't any close by get a video on theaching the trained retrieve and do it on your own. I would also steady him standing up rather then sitting because if you hunt upland with him he will be standing on point before making the retrieve. |
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acolic
Posts:8
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| 12/20/2009 8:13 PM |
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Thanks for the advice.
Quick question about waiting for him to come to me. Lets say he moves off and starts chewing the bumper isan't that a bad idea? |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7835
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| 12/20/2009 10:23 PM |
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I would recommend you start this with something besides a bumper, maybe a ball or something like that. If he doesn't bring it back, just pick up all you stuff and go inside. Don't say a word to him. My guess is if he chews it won't be for long. Later move to the bumper. Personally I don't care if they chew on the bumper or not. If they don't bring it to me I pick up my chair and book and go inside. So far, I have had 100% success with this method with regard to getting them to retrieve.
Oneal does bring up an interesting point though with regard to force fetch. When my dogs are older I do retrain the retrieve and use force fetch. I use the ear pinch method. Because I have trained the retrieve using the chair method the only thing I am really teaching when they are older is to retrieve whatever I ask them to retrieve. It has also been a very quick process as they already love the retrieve and are learning to just retrieve what I ask them to retrieve.
I probably should have asked how old your dog was and where you were in training your dog. For some reason I got the sense that you had a young dog. In any case, I always start first getting my dogs to retrieve and loving the retrieve and then later incorporate the force fetch. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 12/21/2009 6:02 AM |
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Hi,
I recommend SmartFetch by Evan Graham.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:428
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| 12/21/2009 7:35 AM |
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I agree with Pixie but I am a big fan of the trained retrieve. Why screw around when you can train the dog to do a proper retrieve.
That being said if this is a younger dog, or you have no intentions of hunting, you just want a buddy to play with at the park, see if you can get a copy of Perfect Start. John does a great intro to retrieve that would help this dog alot.
Basically John put the dog on a checkcord and keeps a good hold of it. He then takes the bumper and gets the dog all riled up up it making the dog excited and want the bumper. Then he throws the bumper about 4 or 5 feet and the dog grabs it. John gently brings the dog in, grabs the CC close to the dogs collar with one hand and pet the dog with the other, sweet talking the dog. If the dog drops the bumper the praise and petting stops. As long as that dog has the item in its mouth it is praised. Now with this videos your not seeing trained dogs your seeing 2 or 3 untrained dogs from the dog that gets right into it and loves to do this, to an English pointer that would take your finger off because it was in the way, to a timid English setter and all come around within 5 sessions.
If you want to do a trained retrieve on this dog there is a great Dobbs dogs 2 part article on it that I persoanlly used, Evan Graham does a nice one and Brenda Roe wrote up a good article as well.
I also wouldnt work at steadying him at the line until he can retrieve to had 100% of the time with a variety of items. The dog hasnt even finished the 1st step and already your moving on. Take your time and go slowly.
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 12/21/2009 1:13 PM |
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It is good to note that the dog is already retrieving. Bringing to hand is our idea. Teaching a 'hold' will give you a way to re-enforce a sloppy,nervous,mouthy mouthand teach a proper hold. You can go further into teaching a force fetch program. It is best to follow a program from start to finish.
This is not one of those things were you can be ecclectic.
I would suggest you bring the retrieivng into the house in a hallway basically,not giving the dog an option,once he has the object the only place to go is to you. These puppy retrieves will only get you so far tho. You can only re-enforce what has been taught,so start teaching.
Baby steps and make sure the dog understands each step before going to the next step.
Have fun,I enjoy teaching a force retrieve
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Almost Heaven GSP
Springfield, WV
MH
Posts:731
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| 12/21/2009 9:48 PM |
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| How old is he? |
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Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.
Bruce Shaffer
Almost Heaven GSP's
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acolic
Posts:8
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| 12/22/2009 4:54 PM |
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Hi
he's one year old. He's pretty motivated but the retreiving part is a lot more difficult then I expected. I've had a few retreivers and the return to hand was pretty simple.
Thanks for the advice.
Alex |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7835
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| 12/22/2009 5:11 PM |
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| Alex - He is still a baby. I would have fun with him, but not put allot of pressure on him yet. The chair method works great and it puts no pressure on the dog. At a year old I like the dogs to be having a ton of fun with not much pressure. There is plenty of time for the more formal training. Right now my boy is 1.5 and has not been force fetch trained, but is retrieving birds to hand. I do have him with a trainer, but I trained the retrieve before he went off to bird school. The trainer was really surprised he was retrieving so well. Not sure he will ever need to be force fetched, but we will see. Good luck with your pup. Would love to see some pictures of your boy. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:428
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| 12/22/2009 10:34 PM |
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| Force fetching is a good piece of mind knowing that no matter what the dog will always look because it has been driven into his brain he must bring that item back once he has been sent out. When I force Fetched my dog its wasnt because of a sloppy retrieve or that he wouldnt retrieve it was because when hes is 600 yards out in the middle of a marsh I didnt want him giving up and coming back, or coming out of a slough with a live pheasant in his mouth and dropping it so he could shake off. These were things my setter did and I vowed to correct this in my GSP. |
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snips
n.ga.
MH
Posts:413
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| 12/23/2009 8:20 AM |
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You could do a ecollar imprinted "come". This is without any retrieving object. The thing your dog is not doing is Coming, reinforce a good Come comand and the second part of your retrieve is there. I can explain how to do this if you have an ecollar. If you have no ecollar than there is always FF. Or,you could put the dog on a long Fexi-lead and make him come, (reel him in) then praise and let him hold it a bit before taking it. But, Come means Come, and allowing them to take over and play with it is not acceptable. |
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brenda |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 12/23/2009 10:46 AM |
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At this point the'retrieve' is the dog's decision.He decides to go and get,probably what is a seen throw and decides to do what he wants at which point he wants. Re-enforcing a come command will not teach the dog to keep the object in his mouth and w/o munching,fumbling,ect.Most likely, you will enforce come and the dog will drop the object and come to you.You need to first teach the dog a hold command then re-enforce the come.
FF solves many issues,some of which Ryan touched upon. The best dogs to FF are the ones that don't 'need' it - the natural retriever. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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acolic
Posts:8
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| 12/25/2009 1:30 PM |
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Ok we have some progress.
Dog runs out like mad, gets the bumper, I whistle twice for him to come back and he comes back and stands in front of me.
I priase him like mad, tell him to leave the bumper, he spits it out and we do it all over again.
So do I move on to steadying him?
Thanks
Alex |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 12/25/2009 3:11 PM |
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We had a GSP that I played retreived with the same as you are doing now. She was a a lot of fun. Boy, I miss her. If all you want is a dog to play fetch with you are doing it the right way.it's only when you place requirements on a dog that you need to train a more formal retrieve.
Steadying seems like a likely progression.
Sounds like fun.If it's not pouring tomorrow,we will go out and play fetch,too.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:428
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| 12/25/2009 8:42 PM |
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No I wouldnt steady the dog until it is bringing you the dummy to hand everytime. I also wouldnt be whistling him to come back. Fetch means go out, get what I want you to get and bring it back. When you whistle him back he no longer doing the retrieve but doing a recall.
A year is pretty young to be steadying a dog up I wouldnt do it until 1.5 or 2 years old.
What are your plans with this dog in the future? |
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acolic
Posts:8
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| 12/26/2009 9:15 AM |
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My goals for this dog to use him for uplands and waterfowl hunting. He will be 2 years old next hunting season.
Should he not be steadied by 2 years of age?
Thanks
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 12/26/2009 9:37 AM |
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If you are going to use him as a waterfowl dog you will need to do a complete force fetch
program,IMO. Upland is a bit easier then waterfowl so you have a bit of give and take,so to speak, but waterfowl is a way different bird.Do you have experience in hunter either? |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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acolic
Posts:8
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| 12/26/2009 4:24 PM |
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I'm more of an uplands hunter then a waterfowl hunter but I have done both.
I've forced trained a lab 10 years ago.
Alex
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