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jlp8cornell
Ithaca NY
MH
Posts:461
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| 12/15/2009 8:05 AM |
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So, I had a lesson with my trainer's trainer this weekend. (A little background- she competes nationally in Schutzhund trials and has put a couple OTCHs on her dogs).
I told her a little about my routine, etc with Max. A couple observations:
She thinks I spend way too much time with Max, so that when I get out and about, his attention/willingness to work for me/etc is tapped out. Because he has had 2 hours to play, get attention, etc before class- when we get to class he doesn't have the need for me. (She spends time apart from her dogs before a trial). So basically, when I get home, he is in "high drive mode" and by the time we get to class he is bored and not as willing to work.
She also thinks, rightfully so, that Max and his littermate Trace still have their puppy bond. My best friend owns Trace and she and Max play almost every day. Trace seeks comfort, etc in Max instead of her owner. She needs Max, not her owner. Max is more bonded to me but....he still in very bonded to sissy.
Also, she said I need to figure out how to bring his bird drive into his obedience work. Any suggestions??
These are a couple things we talked about. I am going to try, only on training out nights, to keep minimal contact and see if it helps once we get to class. Actually will try this tonight. I am also, on Francine's suggestion, bringing a wing to class tonight.
I have to experiment and see what works. This person competes at high levels, is willing to spend more time apart from her dogs, etc. I am the type that has them with me all of the time, sleep in the bed, etc.
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Jen
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2440 |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7863
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| 12/15/2009 8:16 AM |
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I was going to suggest a wing for training. I have also found allot of good toys at Clean Run (google them online) that work good for motivation. I like tug toys the best as it really gets the dogs revved up and excited. As for being apart from your dog before training, I have never needed to do that. I work from home and I am with my dogs all the time. I do not have a motivation or enthusiasm problem with any of them with obedience. If anything, I have the opposite problem, they get over the top with some of the exercises. At one time I was challenged by my oldest girl, Belle, in that she hated obedience. It wasn't fun, but that was my fault. I was all work and no play and tried to drill her. All recipes for failure with a GSP. Once I changed my style of training so did she. The last competition she was in the obedience judge who had raised and trained shorthairs in obedience told me she absolutely loved seeing a shorthair have so much fun in the obedience ring. Of course, Belle didn't qualify because she improvised a bit on a couple of the exercises, but she definitely had fun.
Good luck with your training and keep us posted. I am definitely interested in what works for you and your pup. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 12/15/2009 8:39 AM |
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I can't say I agree with the being away from him part. I see how it can factor in,like with dogs who are abandoned or outside dogs -when they see a human they are waaay more cooperative,until the real 'dog' comes out.
I don't know if it will work for you,tho. Worth a try.
Bringing his prey drive into obedience - these are 2 different drives and you may not be able to join the 2.
How it works is this - you have prey drive and you have handler (social) drive. Dogs can not be in both at the same time - they can switch back and forth extrememly rapidly tho - dogs are switching constantly all the time.
Prey drive is not as simple as it seems. While the drive may be easy to bring out it may not be easy for the dog to maintain. Endurance in drives is how a dog is hard wired - while a good trainer can make a less endurance dog look good it is difficult. When we ask a dog to be obedient (follow a command)they are no longer in prey but handler drive.The dog needs to be able to switch back to prey/play drive to complete the tasks you are requiring.He may not have enough expereince doing this,he may not be able to do this or he is just not interested.
This is something this trainer person should know a lot about.
Are you sure you are having the issues you think you are having? It could very well be that he is not obedience trained enough and therefore not focusing on you enough.
If he is out doing 'his thing' - maybe he is prioritzing and you are not the first priority?Which goes back to my dominant idea.
Dogs - don'tcha just love 'em?
Francine
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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jlp8cornell
Ithaca NY
MH
Posts:461
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| 12/15/2009 9:28 AM |
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Thanks for the responses- I knew you two would weigh-in.
Bev- I have a bunch of toys that I use, including tugs, only during training. He cannot be trusted with soft toys, which he LOVES, and this is the only place he gets them. My trainer is big on playing so we do a lot of that during our sessions. I try and rotate through toys to get him reved up. I play a lot with him, use lots of good treats, etc. Excited to see how the wing works.
Francine: Yes, this may be a handler issue. Max has a serious amount of endurance. at home he is the energizer bunny and does not stop! I think too, as you brought up, it is a dominance issue as well. I am working hard on that and things are improving. Also, you made me think- maybe at class I am not as much fun. I do play with him a lot but maybe I am having some confidence issues in respect to some of my higher level and somewhat judgmental (in one case) classmates.
I will let you know how things go tonight!
PS- I think some of the input I received last weekend about dogs being away from owners comes from two people who have multiple dogs, some with issues, that need to be crated sometimes. I am a different kind of owner then they are- my dogs are my babies. Anyway, just wanted to let you guys know some of the feedback I received. |
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Jen
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2440 |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7863
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| 12/15/2009 10:50 AM |
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Just remember too GSPs are very people and owner focused and leaving them may actually work in reverse for you.
They are also different than allot of the breeds you find in obedience. Many breeds learn patterns. If you try to train patterns with a GSP look out. They have to be given the time to figure out what you are teaching and sometimes you will see slowness until they figure it out as well. Every GSP I have seen in obedience and other venues typically loves to please their owner, so use that to your advantage too.
Keep trying on the toys too as you will find one that is special at some point. When you do you can use that as well. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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jlp8cornell
Ithaca NY
MH
Posts:461
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| 12/15/2009 11:53 AM |
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| I just need to find a TOUGH soft toy that he can tug and not decapitate! |
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Jen
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2440 |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7863
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| 12/15/2009 3:48 PM |
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Check out some of these tugs: www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm
Mine really like this one and it has held up well to tugging. You can put food in it or not. This one is also good for tossing to get drive in the recall or over jumps, etc.
www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm
Scan through the Clean Run toys as they are well made and work very well with training. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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jlp8cornell
Ithaca NY
MH
Posts:461
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| 12/15/2009 8:35 PM |
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Oooh. Nice tug toys. And I just ordered from Clean Run! Thanks!
So....went to class tonight. This is my Competition Proofing class. We did some warm up heeling, etc and then got to work on recalls. he did great. we had 4 stations: high jump, bar jump, broad jump and empty space- all set up rings separated with gating. Anyway, at each station you worked to your level. I was at the broad jump doing a recall over the jump and a fellow classmate (has field/hunt goldens and a few otchs) said to me- " You need to get more excited! Have a party with him. Make a big deal out of him doing well". So I did and boy did he perk up. So Francine, you had mentioned this today and it is indeed an issue. Now I am more aware of this and we had a great training night. I did what I knew he could handle, was positive and we had a fun time! Classes over until first week of Jan. Privates until then.
Thinking I might order a tug or two tomorrow! Happy and proud of my little man. I did bring a wing and he was pretty happy and so were some of the other dogs!
thanks guys! |
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Jen
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2440 |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7863
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| 12/15/2009 8:56 PM |
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| Jen - Way to go. Keep up the good work. Hope to see you at an obedience trial someday. Keep us posted on you guys progress. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 12/16/2009 6:00 AM |
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Sounds like the 2 of you hit on something. Keep it up.
It can only get better and better
Maybe we can get a picture of Max at class?
Francine
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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jlp8cornell
Ithaca NY
MH
Posts:461
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| 12/16/2009 6:17 AM |
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Will try and get a picture. I am so appreciative for the feedback from you two! And happy my classmate pointed out the same. This guy happens to be one of the loudest, most praising trainers I have seen. He asked if I was shy to be a little silly with my dogs at class and I said, : I Must be but I am not sure why, especially with you in the class!".
Anyway, I will not be aware of my behavior and hopefully things will progress! |
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Jen
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2440 |
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