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BRETTB
Posts:3
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| 10/25/2009 7:42 PM |
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HI IM NEW HERE.I JUST GOT A PUP THAT IS ALMOST 4 MONTHS OLD.WHAT DO I NEED TO DO TO GET HER TO POINT.I GOT WINGS.MY MALE WAS POINTING ALREADY WHEN I BOUGHT HIM AT THIS AGE.SO I M NOT REALLY SURE HOW TO GO ABOUT THIS.I WANT TO MAKE SURE ITS DONE RITE.IVE OWNED GSP IN THE PAST AND THIS ONE IS THE MOST MILD MANNERED AND CALMEST ONE IVE SEEN.ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT.THANKS. |
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RyanGSP
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Posts:430
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| 10/25/2009 10:07 PM |
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Step 1, Throw wings in the garbage
Step 2 Get keys to truck and dog kennel
Step 3 Put dog kennel in truck and load dog
step 4 drive to field with wild bird
Step 5 Take puppy out of kennel and let her run
Step 6 Keep mouth shut and let puppy do its think for 20 min or half hour
Step 7 Put puppy back into crate and drive home
Repeat steps 1-7 until puppy is pointing.
Wild birds will do all the training for this you need. I always shake my head when I see posts like this. The dog is a puppy probably seen as many birds and I got fingers. Give her time, give her the experience, and she will give you results. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 10/26/2009 6:17 AM |
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Almost 4 months is very young. I would not put a time table on pointing unless a dog has had time to mature and had a proper intro to birds.
Not everyone has wild birds available to them.If you don't, you will need to leave it for this season and continue with your obedience training and yard work and intro birds next season when the dog is more mature or you will have to seek out a pro or a hunting preserve. At the preserve inquire if they have a launcer you could rent or borrow or buy your own.A dozen or so flushing birds can do wonders for a flushing pointer. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:430
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| 10/29/2009 3:16 PM |
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Everyone has wild birds available to them. Some live in areas with greater populations than others and some people just dont know where to look. This time in a dogs like is the perfect time for you to scout out new territory for birds. #1 you dont want to keep running a dog in the same area and 2 its a great way to get your dog into a variety of terrain.
You want a faithful pointer and a successful wild bird dog there's only 1 way to do it.... wild birds.
Launchers and planted birds have a place when training a dog but not when your first getting a puppy to point. |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7851
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| 10/29/2009 4:27 PM |
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| Do you have a local GSP club or a NAVDHA chapter near you? If so, get in touch with them as most are having training days right now and they should be more than happy to help. Also, check out out pointing breed clubs in your area. Our local Weim club is really great and they allow all pointing breeds at their training days. They usually have access to a lease for working your dog and birds. Many have homing pidgeons you can use with no cost and game birds that you can purchase for training. They will also be able to point you to any areas near you that have wild birds. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pvstks
MH
Posts:225
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| 10/30/2009 5:40 AM |
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Posted By RyanGSP on 10/25/2009 10:07 PM
Step 1, Throw wings in the garbage
Step 2 Get keys to truck and dog kennel
Step 3 Put dog kennel in truck and load dog
step 4 drive to field with wild bird
Step 5 Take puppy out of kennel and let her run
Step 6 Keep mouth shut and let puppy do its think for 20 min or half hour
Step 7 Put puppy back into crate and drive home
Repeat steps 1-7 until puppy is pointing.
Wild birds will do all the training for this you need. I always shake my head when I see posts like this. The dog is a puppy probably seen as many birds and I got fingers. Give her time, give her the experience, and she will give you results.
I read this post and laughed... There's not much training to it... I don't hunt my dog (yet and not sure if I will), but he points like a pro. He's 7 months and I think his first point was around 3 or 4 months. Of course, he points at everything --- birds, other dogs, leafs, etc...
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 10/30/2009 6:29 AM |
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Ryan's post is a pretty good one. The problem arises when you have a dog that does not have a strong point instinct at a young age. The dog,in the end,may turn out to have a stronger point then a dog that points early on.
There is no training in learning to point. The dog needs exposure to awaken the instinct.
When wanting to expose a dog to birds it is good to ensure there will be a few encounters during any given trip afield. For some, planted birds is the best insurance that birds will be out there for a dog to find.
I think 4 months is to young to make a judgement.Especially since the OP has no experience.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:430
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| 10/30/2009 12:28 PM |
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Posted By pixie bee on 10/30/2009 6:29 AM
I think 4 months is to young to make a judgement.Especially since the OP has no experience.
Best advise in the thread.
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snips
n.ga.
MH
Posts:413
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| 11/02/2009 7:57 AM |
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Well, I would have to drive several hunderd miles to get to wild birds, unless you hunt Turkeys. So, I expose pups to the best flying quail I can buy Let 'em have fun, the birds will teach him. |
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brenda |
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:430
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| 11/03/2009 12:45 AM |
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Posted By pvstks on 10/30/2009 5:40 AM
Posted By RyanGSP on 10/25/2009 10:07 PM
Step 1, Throw wings in the garbage
Step 2 Get keys to truck and dog kennel
Step 3 Put dog kennel in truck and load dog
step 4 drive to field with wild bird
Step 5 Take puppy out of kennel and let her run
Step 6 Keep mouth shut and let puppy do its think for 20 min or half hour
Step 7 Put puppy back into crate and drive home
Repeat steps 1-7 until puppy is pointing.
Wild birds will do all the training for this you need. I always shake my head when I see posts like this. The dog is a puppy probably seen as many birds and I got fingers. Give her time, give her the experience, and she will give you results.
I read this post and laughed... There's not much training to it... I don't hunt my dog (yet and not sure if I will), but he points like a pro. He's 7 months and I think his first point was around 3 or 4 months. Of course, he points at everything --- birds, other dogs, leafs, etc...
You dont train bird dogs. Birds train bird dogs your just there to watch.
Training happens when its time to steady up the dog whether it be to flush or to shot, to force fetch a dog, or if needed working on backing.
All the rest birds will do all the training for you. |
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oneal3337
Great Falls, Mt
MH
Posts:107
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| 11/08/2009 10:17 PM |
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| Ryan's post is spot on. The more wild birds your dog sees the better. Once she learns she can't catch them she'll start to stalk them and then point them. His point about keeping mouth shut is excellent. Dog's don't speak human talk so when your talk to them, unless it's a known command, it just distracts or confuses them. Just because someones dog points like a pro at 6 months doesn't mean your dog is going to. Some of the best hunters I've seen didn't point until they were almost 2 years old. Pixies point is also correct. If you don't have alot of wild birds plant birds and launch them once she scents them and doesn't stop on scent. You don't need an expensive remote launcher you can use a stick and string if necesarry. Have fun and don't worry she'll point for you sooner or later! |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 11/09/2009 8:46 AM |
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I think a gabby gus annoys some dogs-want a dog to ignore you - keep talking. In the field words should have meaning to a dog,this way they know they can trust you will be a functioning member of the team. One thing that annoys me THE most are people who keep encouraging a dog to hunt when they already are hunting.Sheesh,give it a rest.
My dogs will,100%, take direction when they are coming up empty handed and I give a direction command.They are relying on me to lead them.
Of course, they haven't figured out yet that I'm bluffing 1/2 the time.LOL. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:430
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| 11/09/2009 7:19 PM |
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Posted By pixie bee on 11/09/2009 8:46 AM
I think a gabby gus annoys some dogs-want a dog to ignore you - keep talking. In the field words should have meaning to a dog,this way they know they can trust you will be a functioning member of the team. One thing that annoys me THE most are people who keep encouraging a dog to hunt when they already are hunting.Sheesh,give it a rest.
My dogs will,100%, take direction when they are coming up empty handed and I give a direction command.They are relying on me to lead them.
Of course, they haven't figured out yet that I'm bluffing 1/2 the time.LOL.
Pixie I agree and disagree with your comment about telling a dog to hunt when it already is. I do agree with you I hate it when guys are hacking the dog to hunt 'em up but in the thick stuff a pheasant will bed down and let you walk right by them. I find if I keep talking to my dogs and encouraging them #1 they keep going hard and 32 the birds dont lock down tight.
We both know I am a big fan of shut your mouth and enjoy the scenery but even in the cattails I open my big mouth an start talking to my dog. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 11/09/2009 7:25 PM |
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Ryan,
you gotta hunt with me sometime. I have the highest prey drive dogs you will ever meet.
They don't quit. One search command and it is never IF only WHEN. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:430
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| 11/09/2009 7:30 PM |
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| I think you missed the point. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 11/10/2009 5:23 AM |
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I think you're right.
Anyway,talking to a dog and encouraging is like throwing a stone in the pond to get and keep the dog out there. Maybe good for young dogs but I expect an experienced dog to do the job on it's own. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:430
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| 11/10/2009 2:59 PM |
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| The point is to keep talking so that the birds keep running and wont hold down. Talking to your dog whether it be encouraging or doing the field trial sing allows the dog to know where you are when working the thick stuff. This lets them work out a pattern. Believe it or not a good pheasant dog will push pheasants to you or will put up a block to stop running birds. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 11/11/2009 6:07 AM |
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I can't say I agree with the bulk of your post. Maybe we just hunt differently,in different terrain. I don't want a bird to keep moving for several reason -1) I'll be chasing 1 bird all day;
2) it may get into a clearing and flush out of range or feel pressured enough to flush out of range;3) it may take my dog out of gun range and out of sight;4)the dog may pick up habits of not pointing
I want a bird to stay put or be pinned so I can flush it and shoot comfortably.
We make enough noise when we walk and give a whistle or verbal command here and there , we have enough scent that the dog can find us (if they wanted to) and a dog is usually smart enough to back track to the last place they saw us (if the wanted to).I'm not in the game of keeping the dog aware of my whereabouts - that's his job and part of a cooperative dog who works as a team.
The last sentence is where I agree with you. Haiko has driven many pheasants back my way,in fact the picture I posted with my kids on youth 2009 day,the second pheasant was flushed thru the woods,to the wood line,saw my son and open area and flushed. . My son didin't know Haiko was working a bird,I wasn't with him, and when the bird flushed out in front of him he was taken by surprise,but he knocked it down. There was an awesome search and retrieve also. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:430
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| 11/11/2009 6:59 AM |
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Posted By pixie bee on 11/11/2009 6:07 AM
I can't say I agree with the bulk of your post. Maybe we just hunt differently,in different terrain. I don't want a bird to keep moving for several reason -1) I'll be chasing 1 bird all day;
2) it may get into a clearing and flush out of range or feel pressured enough to flush out of range;3) it may take my dog out of gun range and out of sight;4)the dog may pick up habits of not pointing
I want a bird to stay put or be pinned so I can flush it and shoot comfortably.
We make enough noise when we walk and give a whistle or verbal command here and there , we have enough scent that the dog can find us (if they wanted to) and a dog is usually smart enough to back track to the last place they saw us (if the wanted to).I'm not in the game of keeping the dog aware of my whereabouts - that's his job and part of a cooperative dog who works as a team.
The last sentence is where I agree with you. Haiko has driven many pheasants back my way,in fact the picture I posted with my kids on youth 2009 day,the second pheasant was flushed thru the woods,to the wood line,saw my son and open area and flushed. . My son didin't know Haiko was working a bird,I wasn't with him, and when the bird flushed out in front of him he was taken by surprise,but he knocked it down. There was an awesome search and retrieve also.
Pixie why dont you step off the game farm, try hunting wild pheasants then come back to me and tell me you disagree with my post. Not to toot my own horn but I have hunted and shot enough of these birds to know what I am doing and know what work well. I have said it before and I will say it again, come up to Alberta and I will show you what hunting wild pheasants is really like.
Talk to a season pheasant hunter and he will tell you of walking along and suddenly there are birds flushing where he just walked.
Once again you must not be hunting the thick stuff because a dog wont know where you are unless you tell him where you are with your voice. Many of times we have stood there cursing at ourselves beause we cheaped out and dint buy the Astro or put the beeper collar on the dog. He is standing in a cattail thicket and wont move unless the bird does. Thats how thick we are hunting. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 11/11/2009 12:00 PM |
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It has nothing to do with wild or pen raised. Aside from the fact that pen raised don't know how to survive in the wild their behavior is not much different from wild pheasant. If a dog is passing birds then that hunter needs to rethink their choice of hunting partners. How many birds do my dogs pass up? I don't know, but I don't have birds flushing in my wake. We will usually re-walk areas for birds that weren't scented in areas that the dog did not search,searching wood lines will take a dog out of the main field or out of the opposite wood line.We hunt fields surrounded by wood thickets. The birds are usually inside these thickets and not in the fields. We do not have to enter the woods,we walk the edge and the dogs will enter and search and either point or push out birds towards us.We keep the dogs within 100' or so so we can see them or hear the bell has stopped. We are tickaphobic and will only enter the woods if it is somewhat clear for passage,we ain't that hungry for birds to risk tick born diseases,especially with our kids along.
I disagree with your last paragraph, both my dogs have gone out of sight and hearing and in thick crap where all they can hear is cattails or branches rustling in their ears and always come out where they last saw us or in front of us,usually in the place they last saw us-where they entered, I guess b/c they are not honing in on us and are concentrating on their task and the surest way back to us is the last place seen. I will usually stay behind while myhusband moves foward with the dog.The majority of the time the dogs understand they enter to search and do not continue foward past a certain distance - how they know this, I don't know but they do. Maybe they know we are not following and therefore not 'pushing' them.
This is how we hunt and we are productive for the birds we hunt and the style of hunting has not left us disappointed. A dog that learns to hunt as their human conterpart does is a happy team - whether or not it falls into someone else's idea of hunting is not my concern.
Please let go of the wild bird thing. We are hunting grouse, woodcock and snipe.Along with state released pheasants. I do clean up the preserves and it's not easy finding the last bird in a 40 acre field that has been searched and re-searched for 2 hours by dogs,a guide and hunters on foot and 4 wheelers. And yes, we do find at least 1 bird. A dog's nose and intelligence is what finds birds no matter where that bird was raised.
Francine
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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