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List_House
Midland, Pa (western, Pa)
MH
Posts:142
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| 10/20/2009 7:35 PM |
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Just wanted to see what folks on here have to say. I have an 11mo old who I have done a few training days with, he is ok with gun and so on. However he does not hold point for much longer that 5-10 seconds. I am under the impression that you use a bird launcher to teach staunchness. i.e. when he breaks point you launch and the bird and it gets away. Well I assume the same pricipal applies if you just take them hunting??? I have taken him out twice in the past week. Only grouse is open for adults in Pa but there have been pheasants stocked for the youth. Well he has pointed but busted in on 6 birds before I would be in shooting range. He busts them then chases squealing the whole way. He comes back when called. Just thought that the points would be getting longer with each bird. This is will not cause any set backs will it. I have no problem going through a whole season just letting birds fly if thats will help. He knows whoa but I really have not been close enough to whoa without yelling it. Which I thought your not supposed to do??? |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 10/20/2009 8:20 PM |
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I say let him do what he's doing while the season is open and then steady him. He is learning a lot now. As long as he comes back when you call. Don't say whoa at all.Try to circle in front of him with the bird between you two,say nothing until you call him back, this way he may see you as less competition and more as a team.
One thing I ty to assess is why the dog is breaking.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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List_House
Midland, Pa (western, Pa)
MH
Posts:142
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| 10/21/2009 10:32 AM |
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I will take the blame for this. I think he caught one too many birds. Three times I have had quail loaded into the launcher. They have gotten out and gone into the very thick bryars. Those don't stop Wyatt and he has gone in and caught the bird. I never called him off the bird becuase I thought that would be bad and each time I figured the quail would get away. They didn't?
I don't think he busts because he views me as competition because the closest I have been before he flushes is about 30yds?
Our Pheasant opens this week. If he holds point and I get close enough to shoot do I shoot so he sees he gets the bird when I get close. Or do I just let the birds go until he lets me flush?
I do not have an e-collar yet so that is not an option. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 10/21/2009 11:45 AM |
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It's not a good idea to combine steadiness training with hunting. Leave the launcher/planted birds training for now and only take him hunting. Let these birds teach him a little. When the season is over then start on getting whoa in place and then start with the launcher again.
Maybe others can give advice but I would not work on steadiness training w/o a near perfect whoa in place.Not calling him off the bird was the right thing to do. With a good dog catching a few doesn't hurt, only makes it a bit harder to convince them not to.
With our 18 month old who is not steady we do not shoot,we work both dogs separatly.No matter how well he handles a bird,which really is only to flush, we do not shoot. He does allow us to approach and flush. He is allowed to chase and then is called back or he stops on his own.After this season he will have his first lessons in steadiness. An e-collar makes this a bit easier but it can and has been done w/o one.
If you only want a meat dog then training is a bit easier - you don't need a fully broke dog - unless it's what you want.In the real world,outside of testing,a fully broke dog,IMO, can be a disadvantage.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7835
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| 10/21/2009 12:36 PM |
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Pixie - What you are describing with your youngster is pretty close to where I am with Ringo. The only thing different I have been doing is capping my starter pistol when the bird flushes. I was planning on working him on birds in fields through the season like that and then getting him back into the more formal training for steadiness. What I have noticed so far is he is steadying up allot on his own. When I started I could not get close and flush the birds, he would point for a few seconds and then bump the bird and chase. Now he is holding the point most of the time until I can flush. The only exception seems to be if the bird is moving, then he will bump and chase. It is almost like he has discovered though that the hunt and point are more fun than the chase, especially since he has only been on good flying birds so far this year. He does not chase the birds very much any more and if he does he usually stops pretty quick and comes right back and is ready to hunt some more. The work I am doing with the ecollar is separate from the bird work still. I am still at the stage where I do not want him to associate anything negative with birds. Birds = FUN
By the way Ringo is almost the exact age of your boy. Ringo will be 18 months the end of this month. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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snips
n.ga.
MH
Posts:413
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| 10/21/2009 2:55 PM |
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At 11 mo I would continue hunting on wild birds and shoot what he points. Wild birds cannot hurt. Then do steady work after season. At 18 mo I would have a CC on and stop ALL chasing. |
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brenda |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 10/22/2009 6:37 AM |
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Huh? I thought I submitted a reply?Oh,well.
TB,I think capping your pistol may be counter-productive. A gunshot should mean whoa not go.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7835
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| 10/22/2009 8:17 AM |
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Yeah, that was what I was thinking too about the pistol cap, but the actual behavior is stop. Last weekend when we ran in the hunt test he was hunting and his bracemate went on point. Ringo didn't see it as he was moving away from his bracemate, but when they flushed and capped their pistol Ringo stopped sigthed the other dog and froze. I had already noticed that he was no longer interested in his bracemate, but was doing his own hunting which was good, but to have him actively recognize the other dog and freeze was very nice. He has also pretty much dropped the chase behavior on him own. He may take a few steps and turn in the direction the bird flies, but probably 4 out of 5 finds he does not chase anymore. What I may do is just cap the pistol when he doesn't chase the bird.
I am going to a training a day in a couple of weeks and will talk to some folks about this as well. Thanks for the input. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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List_House
Midland, Pa (western, Pa)
MH
Posts:142
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| 10/25/2009 7:01 AM |
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Well we went out yesterday, it was polluted with dogs and hunters so we hunted the nasty stuff around the fields not actually in the fields. We were actually walking the trail out when he put his nose up in the air. I told him find it, he went into a thicket and a few seconds latter a rooster came out. It went the other way so I didn't even shoot. 50yds down the path the same thing, into a thicket I can't see him a rooster comes right out to me. So I shot it???? I am hoping now that he will understand that I get him the birds, I will not shoot unless he points and lets me flush!
Did that make sesnse? |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 10/26/2009 11:01 AM |
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Well, my dogs didn't learn that lesson.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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