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Fenrick
Posts:1
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| 08/12/2009 10:45 AM |
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Hey Everyone,
I just got my first GSP a couple weeks ago and is going to be 11 weeks in a couple days. I'm just wondering, and I know this question is a little unfair, but what would be a general timetable for training. By this I mean, at what age should he have learned to sit, stay, fetch, etc...
I know it is all on a case by case basis, but what trends have you been seeing.
Thanks for any help and I'm really glad to find this site. |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7855
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| 08/12/2009 11:12 AM |
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I guess the first thing is what do you want to do with your dog? Hunting? Obedience? etc. The answer will drive the direction and timetable to a degree.
For my dogs I do hunting, agility, obedience and conformation. I always start mine out with basic obedience. I start training things like sit, stay, down, heel, fetch, and come as soon as I get them at 8 weeks. Understand by training, at this point it is more play with training subtly embedded into the play. I also keep any training short and sweet. As soon as they finish their shots they are enrolled in a puppy class. I like the puppy classes for continuing the training and socialization. I also start taking them everywhere I go as soon as I get them. Lot's of trips to my mom's house, Lowe's, etc. I tend to stay away from pet shops until they have all their shots.
As soon as they finish puppy class, we go straight into an obedience class and then competition obedience class. Of course, I also compete in obedience with my dogs.
As for timetable, I don't pay attention to that. The dog drives the timetable and each is different. I also keep the pressure on my dogs to a minimum until they are at least a year old. Again, it depends on the dog and the dogs personality. I never get in a hurry with a dog to compete in any venue as you can really set a dog back if you rush them along.
Things like agility you can't start formally training until the growth plates close. You want to stay away from formal jumping. You can however do ground work for agility.
One thing about GSPs is they are very smart and learn very quickly. They also get bored very quickly. I have found that a couple of reps works best. Drilling is a definite no no with a GSP. The more entertaining you can make the training the better. I mix up my rewards with my dogs. Sometimes they get a treat, sometimes a play session with me, sometimes just verbal praise. I also mark good behavior with a verbal yes so they know when they are doing something right. It is the same principle as clicker training only instead of the clicker I use the verbal yes. I find clickers cumbersome and the timing is so important. The verbal yes is just easier for me.
Some conformation and hunting folks forgo training sit as it can sometimes cause some retraining later in the conformation ring or in the field. For my part I have not had that problem. I don't know if it is the temperament of my dogs, the way I train, or the simple fact that I use a different collar and leash for each type of training and event. In any case, I just wanted you to be aware of this potential issue as you put together a training program for your pup.
Most important of all, always always have fun with your dog.
By the way (and I should have said this right away), congrats on being a new GSP owner. I think you will find this breed is absolutely awesome. Membership to this site requires you to post pictures of your new puppy. Just kidding, but we do love to see pics of our favorite breed. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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FrancisMcGee
Ann Arbor, MI
MH
Posts:114
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| 08/13/2009 6:58 AM |
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Everything Bev (Texas Belle) mentioned above was correct.
We started training our pup in basic obedience right away. As Bev mentioned, it was always just a game. We did very short stints of "barely formal" training...sit, down, stay, fetch. Puppy class started just after shots were complete. Again, this is great for socialization.
Two recommendations:
1) If you're going to hunt your GSP and have never trained a dog to hunt...I would recommend getting some help from a professional. Not necessarily sending the pup away (although this can be very successful) but meeting with the trainer and getting some tips on training to work on weekly. The best trainers I have seen are really patient and extremely consistent. This comes from confidence in technique only obtained through experience.
2) Try to find a trainer for your obedience class that has worked with sporting dogs. GSPs can often have different "motivators" that get them to respond well to training. Training our lab was COMPLETELY different than training our GSP. We trained our lab with hot dogs. Exclusively. Hot dog, hot dog, hot dog. My GSP could care less about treats. She's motivated by praise, play, hunting, and a little "pressure". Our training never really "took off" until we got her into the field to hunt. She finally understood that if she followed commands, she got more birds.
Finally, congratulations on your GSP. They are wonderful dogs...very easy to train, quick to learn. My biggest recommendations are to be patient, be consistent, and give your dog as much exercise as possible. They can be a bit of a handful as puppies but they make great strides with lots of mental (training) and physical (exercise) stimulation.
Ask lots of questions and please post pictures. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 08/13/2009 7:26 AM |
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FrancisMcGee,
you wrote that ' She finally understood that if she followed commands, she got more birds. '
What does this mean?I am thinking it means she was allowed retrieves?
Francine
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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FrancisMcGee
Ann Arbor, MI
MH
Posts:114
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| 08/13/2009 10:20 AM |
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Wow Francine, that makes it sound like I'm some sort of slave driver, doesn't it? "Gracie, if you don't whoa and come when called, you don't get to hunt." Definitely NOT what I meant to say.
I meant that hunting fullfills her natural instinct and ability....it gives her mental and physical stimulation and an outlet for her energy...basically it is what her breed was meant to do.
I have found that when we hunt her (I include training to hunt...not just on birds) her overall obedience increases greatly. It is exactly the same as giving your dog enough exercise...I just think Gracie's concept of exercise is best fullfilled when she is allowed to use her prey drive in a constructive manner.
Hope that makes sense. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 08/13/2009 11:08 AM |
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OOPPPS. I guess I'm a slave driver.
I didn't think you wouldn't take her hunting just limit her retrieves unless she is told to fetch.
Follow commands - get more birds -whoa,don't break - get the retrieve(reward).I thought this is what you meant. Pointing dogs have several rules(manners,commands) to follow during a hunt. I have been with illmannered dogs and I can tell you it is not fun. For one thing,your mannered dog gets unmannered real fast.
TB, you gave the advice - 'Most important of all, always always have fun with your dog.'
While this may be a good premise it does not always hold true. Training to the level of finished dog-in any sport- is hard work and can at times, be more fustrating then fun,for you and the dog. This is when you end on a positive note and let the dog digest what happened and hope they can put it together for the next time.If dogs always had fun they would not learn to take you seriously.As in teaching a long sit or down.
Francine
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7855
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| 08/13/2009 11:50 AM |
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Francine -
I think you may have misunderstood my point. I do not mean it is always fun and games with training. I mean that you should enjoy (have fun) and your dog should enjoy (have fun) the times you work together. Not that every moment will be perfect or fun. Some days will be disastrous, some days you and the dog may loose (get an NQ, bust an exercise, take 10 steps back in training, etc.), but at the end of it all you should be smiling and want to go again, and so should your dog. Otherwise, why would we do it and why would our dogs ever work for us? Again, I think it is important to have fun. I have made the most progress in training on days that started out with corrections and both the dog and I going down the path to frustration. So, we would back up, get a small success, and then quit for the day and go swimming or play fetch, something fun. Instead of drilling the dog and getting more and more frustrated, we put the training on the shelf and had fun. Two things accomplished 1) my blood pressure stayed good and 2) the dog wanted to try again the next day. And usually, the next day we would make great progress in our training program.
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 08/13/2009 12:37 PM |
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I know what you meant and I agree with you.
I have run into companion owners who seem to take the 'always have fun' premise to seriously,meaning the dog is allowed to be illmannered in the name of fun and love. They don't want to hurt the dog's feelings or the dog is just a dog and it's okay and cute that they do what dogs do.Teaching manners doesn't go further then sitting in the kitchen while waiting for a treat.
Personally, these people annoy me. I can't count how many times people have told me to be nicer to my dogs - why b/c I put them on sit and have them comply the entire time when I stop to speak with people during our walk or for not letting them play with their dog.
Ooooh, a bit of a rant.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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snips
n.ga.
MH
Posts:413
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| 08/13/2009 1:08 PM |
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I do things a little different...I do not worry about much except Come til they are 8-12 months old depending on dog. I let them be a pup and expose them to birds, water, lots of walks, ect. Obedience can come at any time, no rush. My best Obedience competition dog did not know any commands til she was a yr old, she then got a Dog World Award in obedience competition. So I am a believer in less is fine til they grow up. |
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brenda |
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 08/16/2009 7:59 AM |
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2-6 months: Basic obedience from day one, keeping formal sessions short, integrating commands daily routine, and keeping it very fun and very rewarding. The pups are like sponges at that age and eager to please and learn VERY fast, so I try to teach them as many commands and words as I can think of. Lots of praise, use of treats.
6-12 months: increase the pressure by increasing distractions and duration of commands, use of pinch collar. Lots of praise but phase out treats.
12 months and up: start using e-collar, by now at the latest dog must know that good behavior is VERY rewarding and unwanted behavior will have consequences.
18 months and up: step up physical conditioning (roadworking, jumping, etc).
That's in a nutshell, and you will need to adjust depending on the individual dog. I think the most important thing is that the first few months especially need to be super positive and much fun for the dog who will learn without even knowing it is being trained.
If you want to hunt the dog I would second the recommendation to contact a trainer for some advice, there are some things you will need to do differently even at a very young age. Even if you don't intend to hunt, but maybe want to try hunting tests and field trials, or at the least simply because you DO have a hunting breed, I highly recommend that you condition the pup for the field. It is a ton of fun for both you and the dog, and builds stamina and confidence, and increases the bond between you and the dog. You may want to contact a local NAVHDA chapter, those folks are most generous with their advice. Pick up some books covering the conditioning for gun dogs during the first year, the ones recommended to me were:
www.amazon.com/Themselves-Taking-Advantage-Condtioned-Learning/dp/0963012746/ref=sr_1_2
www.amazon.com/Speed-Train-Your-Own-Bird/dp/0811723046/ref=sr_1_1
www.amazon.com/Best-Way-Train-Your-Gun/dp/0679507507/ref=sr_1_1 |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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