Haven't been around in a while........things have been really busy with two growing pups in the house! Lola had a reliable recall before Lilly came along. Once Lilly got here it was gone. I've worked with both of them on check cords simultaneously as well as alone and can get recalls in the back yard very consistently. The problems begin when we go to the off leash area with both of them and they just flat out ignore me, they will eventually come but only when they feel like it. They are generally more concerned with each other than me. If i take them out one at a time the problems aren't nearly as bad, they are still distracted at times.

So basically i'm to the point where i'm ready to introduce an e-collar. Both of the dogs know what to do when i say "come". And they recieve plenty of praise for it (treats, baby talk). I've been looking at some models and one i came across that struck me was the DT Systems H20. It was 16 levels of stimulation both nick and continuous, a vibration feature and it has a 1 mile range. Anyone with any experience with this collar or any other collars in that general price range would be greatly appreciated.

www.gundogsupply.com/h20-1822.html

The problem with having more than one puppy at a time is that they act like puppies and feed off of each other's enthusiasm and rebellion.

Start working them separately and you will likely see a complete transformation very quickly.

I'm a long time user and strong proponent of the DT systems collars.  Nothing I've used in the past gave me the same levels of reliability and when they do need work their customer service is the best in the business.  Normally from the time one hits their shop I have it back in my hands in less than a week!

I use the 2400 series now and absolutely love them.  When you have a hundred possible levels of stimulation along with both continuous and momentary settings and their "jump and rise" feature you have an enormous number of options whereby you can tailor exactly the right settings for each dog in every setting.

Pixie thanks for the complement, but I am not so sure about the goddess part.  Anyway, for what it is worth I demand reliable recalls from my dogs and teach two different recalls.  One is the formal come for obedience where they come and sit straight in front of me.  I do not however want them to have to do that in the field or hiking.  So, I use the here command for all other recalls.  I train thousands of reps on the here command while on leash starting out in a quiet place with no distractions.  As the dog becomes better I introduce distractions and new locations, but they stay on leash.  When I hike with them I call them periodically and they have to come.  If they ever hesitate, then they get a pop on the leash until they come.  Each dog is different and some take a short while, others can take years.  Same for introducing ecollars, some need it and some don't. 

My first suggestion is what Charlie suggests, go back and work them separate until they are 100% in controlled environments.  Then introduce distractions.  I suspect you have let them run together before they were ready for that level of distraction. I too think you will be surprised if you go back to training them individually.  I would also not let them off leash together until they are rock solid alone. 

As for the ecollar, I wouldn't consider introducing it until you have them 100% on leash, then and only then would I consider using it and I would still be just working them individually.  Once they are both good alone, then go back and try them together.  Also, you need to condition your dog to the ecollar or they will get collar wise and only obey when the collar is on. Same problem you can run into when you take the leash off.  I posted quite a few threads on ecollars, so you might want to do a search.  There were some very good discussions about this very topic.

Good luck and remember if your dog is messing up on a command, you need to take a few steps back in your training.  You have gone to fast if they mess up.

Depends on the dogs and what they are doing.  I sort of have a similar problem with Halo and Ringo right now.  Ringo has brought puppy bad habits back out in Halo.  Halo will still come, but it was not the immediate response I demand of my dogs.  She had to take her swipes at Ringo teasing him and trying to one up him.  It is the competitive nature of the pack.  They still don't mess with my alpha, Belle.  Anyway, Ringo continues to wear the ecollar, although I have not had to use it with him again. His response is still very good unless Halo is bugging him. The only moment of concern I had was when he followed Halo and got behind a huge pile of bushes and trees and couldn't figure out how to get back to me.  Halo left him over there, probably hoping he would get lost.  Anyway I did not use the ecollar in that circumstance as I could hear him trying to figure out how to get back to me.  I just kept calling and walked to the end of the pile.  He followed my voice and all was well. All of that aside both Halo and Ringo are wearing the collar so if I do have to speed up eithers response I can still reach out and touch them.  I put the collars on all the time though so they do not get collar wise. 

If however the dog was not giving any indication of a response, then I would back them up in the training, put them back on a flexi or check cord and continue to work them on leash. Also, if they are paying more attention to each other than you, I think I would keep training separate for a while.  If however they are listening to you and just slow on coming back then I would just put the ecollar on both of them as a gentle reminder.

Thanks for the help everyone, i went back to basics this afternoon. Worked each dog individually in a controlled environment. just worked on "come". I have my work cut out for me.....i noticed an immediate change in behavior as soon as they were outside and realized the other wasn't with them. They performed well but it seemed as though they were distracted with the fact the other wasn't with them. I assume this will get better over time, if not i'll move to the fields where some distractions and excitement may cause them to forget all about their best friend.

One thing Belle said that really hit home was the one uping each other qoute. Lola knows good and well what she's supposed to do when i say come. THe problem seems to be is that shes worried about Lilly getting to me first and getting more praise or something.

Let me know if this sounds feasible:

I'm going to really stress the basics for a couple weeks separately (come, sit, stay) Once i'm confident they understand what i'm trying to teach them then i'll work on collar conditioning. Put it on them for each training session (hopefully this will make them super excited about putting it on because they know it means fun time). After a few weeks of conditioning i'll introduce stimulation (only if necessary) to reinforce what hopefully they have learned. Once they realize that i mean business then maybe off leash time? And then if both are good then i can maybe let them run together again. I'm in this for the long haul, my brother lost his lab because she darted into the street and ignored his commands and i refuse to let that happen to my babies.

Sounds like a good plan to me.  Just remember the dogs set the timetable.  Don't set an artificial timetable.  One may progress faster than the other.  Take  your time and be patient.  Believe me it pays off in the long run. 

I really admire your attitude and dedication.  You are right.  There is absolutely no more important command than the recall.  Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

Love the new pictures in your signature.  Lilly is sure growing up fast.  Lola and Lilly are both beautiful dogs.

You could do it either way.  I usually let them off leash or check cord and wait for an opportunity to call them. If they respond, no problem.  If not, I use stimulation at a low setting and turn it up until I get a response.  The response will be obvious.  However, do not let off the stimulation until they turn back to you.

If you leave her on a check cord you may find that she does exactly what you want.  You may not get a response you can correct unitl you take her off leash.  Heck, if she is really good, you may not  get a wrong response their either.  Anyway, good luck and pay attention to your timing with the ecollar.  The stimulation goes away as soon as she turns back to you. As long as she is coming to you no stimulation.  If she gets side tracked you stimulate her.