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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4474
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| 04/22/2009 5:22 PM |
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If I may be allowed to interject one more time,
be careful of all the stop and go.This does NOT work well with pointing breeds. It will ruin the desire and range.Some is good if the dog is super-duper high drive but most dogs are not as high drive as the owners would like to think. pointing breeds were not bred for the same purpose as retrievers. retrievers were bred to be handled pointers were bred to be independent.
Best of success with your dog,keep us posted and pictures,too. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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WildRose
Seymour Texas
MH
Posts:471
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| 04/22/2009 9:16 PM |
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Posted By lauralee on 04/22/2009 2:52 PM
Yeah, but Charlie, do you really think this is the best breed to use for this ???? I mean A Shorthair was bred to think for himself, and exude some independence within his hunting. Don't you think that trying to suppress this bred in independence is counterproductive to which the breed was bred for ???? If you want a dog that's a " Push Button" retriever, then get a lab.. I'm not trying to start a p*ssing contest here,, but I think we should hunt a breed for how it was bred for
What about GSP's that get used exclusively as S & R dogs, or cadaver dogs? If this was his goal for the dog would you have the same thoughts?
They were bred to be "Versatile Dogs" remember not just pointing dogs.
Is this any more out of line than someone who ONLY hunts upland game with his GSP? What about someone that ONLY hunts waterfowl and uses his dog for hairy stuff?
What about all those GSP's you saw at the show this weekend that will NEVER be worked on a bird, a retrieve or track anything but a hot dog?
Again, this is not how I train, nor the order in which I'd approach the training but it's his goals, his dog, and his trainer. |
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There's a reason I like dogs better'n people... . |
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WildRose
Seymour Texas
MH
Posts:471
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| 04/22/2009 9:18 PM |
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| WC she sure doesn't look like the pressure has caused her any issues in those pictures. When were they taken in relation to the video you put up originally? |
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There's a reason I like dogs better'n people... . |
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Wpevey
SH
Posts:50
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| 04/22/2009 10:43 PM |
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WR those were taken the same day immediatly after her training session (entire session was about 45min to hour with little breaks I'd guess). I do that with her every time, when we end the session the leash, e-collar all come off and I let her be a dog, as long as she will recall when I want her to. She will spend about 10 min loving on me and getting attention then she is off on her own checking things out, she ranges about 200 yrds or so when we do this (with random check-ins) but thats about all the room you get in SE louisiana lol. Ill post you some pics prior to the trainer too so you can compare if you want. |
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Wpevey
SH
Posts:50
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| 04/23/2009 12:05 AM |
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WR here are couple pics from before training
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4474
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| 04/23/2009 6:11 AM |
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I have to ask. Is she sight pointing or scent pointing?
In the pictures directly above she was younger?
This type of training does not produce a push button dog. It produces a dog that is highly obedience trained.
I do not see a need for a pointer to do marks over 200' and that is pushing it,you will see the trainer may have an issue or 2 b/c the dog wants to put her head down to search and pessure will have to be added to prevent this,needless pressure. I don't know what type of cover you'll be hunting ducks in but most are marked retreives and rarely over 200'.
GSPs are an intelligent dog and become bored with so many retrieves and the trainer will begin to see no-gos and refusals and again pressure will be added,needlessly. I do hope the trainer has the knowlege to adjust the training to the dog and not a cookie-cutter approach.
I would like to see some scent pointing,just for the heck of it - I can't get enough of pointing pictures,I'm addicted! |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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lauralee
Plainfield, CT.
MH
Posts:449
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| 04/23/2009 6:22 AM |
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| HEY HEY, WR, Don't start picking on us show people,,,lol,lol I'm one of those show people that thinks it's important to maintain the hunting ability within the showing GSP !!! But you make some good points, I do think the GSP is, and was bred to be a versatile breed,, I commend any one that does a job with their dog, and it's obvious this person really cares about his dog,, Maybe I am just wondering why he picked a GSP to do this job, rather than a more push button dog,,,,or even if he had ever considered it,,,, Hey , I'd be the last one to try to promote another breed,,,, but I also don't have my head in the sand when it comes to breeds being bred for a certain task, and being more suited to perform that task,,, |
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Wpevey
SH
Posts:50
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| 04/23/2009 7:45 AM |
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Pixie-all those pics are sight points I believe, I was using wings in some of them but they wernt particularly hidden in any cover. Yeah she was younger in those pics, probly between 4 and 6mo. does 200' mean feet or yrds? When I said she was ranging 200yrd I didnt mean retrieves I ment she was just 200yrds out searching and hunting, after the training with no pressure. a 200 foot retrieve is cupcake stuff for ducks here in LA, and 200yrd retrieve is extreamly rare on a hunt. So that shouldnt be an issue.
Lauralee-I chose a shorthair b/c I like them. I like their personality and their VERSATILITY. Too many people get caught up in the Pointer part of the name. Yes they are a pointer but they were bred to be versital. I didnt want a push button dog to do one thing. I wanted a dog that would do it all, sit in a duck blind and retrieve one day and go point quail the next (thats why I chose her, I liked her pedigree with DK, and AA). And I wanted it to have a loving disposition and personality that would be my companion and family member. NO other breed can do all that as completely as a shorthair IMO. |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7921
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| 04/23/2009 8:49 AM |
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Wpevey - I agree with your opinion of a shorthair and they truly are a versatile breed, and smart to boot. Your girl is a beautiful dog and I know you are very proud of her and rightly so. I got my first shorthair not as a hunting dog, but rather as a pet. That evolved to obedience work and showing in the obedience ring. After that I had to have another (my first girl, Belle, needed a playmate) and since I was hooked on the breed and showing, I got a show quality shorthair to show in obedience and in conformation (that was Halo). Then we added flyball and agility. Finally, I got my boy, Ringo, and added hunt tests and field trials to the list and hopefully this fall some just plan old hunting.
Oh and just for the record, mine are also into fur hunting (on their own), they have brought me squirrels, rats, young opossums, etc. Last night they added a full grown opossum to the list complete with the long claws and a nice set of nasty looking teeth. The opossum was dead and I dare say felt no pain, and the dogs were unscathed.
So yes, this is a versatile breed and IMO you have picked the perfect dog for the job. Good luck with your training, and remember first and foremost have fun. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Almost Heaven GSP
Springfield, WV
MH
Posts:732
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| 04/24/2009 9:11 AM |
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She is a really good looking girl Wpevey!
I've watched this video 2 dozen times and the only time the dog appears to be showing pressure is in close proximity to the Trainer. When the dog is going for the Retrieve her tail is up and happy and when she is returning her tail appears to be up and happy until the last few steps coming in to the Trainer, where she promptly tucks it. That also appears to be the only time she is laying her ears down and posturing. Myself, I'd prefer to see her happy the whole time, but that is just the nature of my personal Training Style and the way I will, or will not, apply pressure. My preference is to leave as few "fingerprints" on a dog as possible; BUT I AM NOT a Retriever Trainer, where a great deal of pressure can be necessary to accomplish teaching the desired task.
Wpevey,
If you know; Does your Trainer intend to take her straight from finishing breaking her for Retrieve, into breaking her for StoW,S&F? Just my guess on his intentions. |
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Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.
Bruce Shaffer
Almost Heaven GSP's
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Wpevey
SH
Posts:50
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| 04/24/2009 10:53 AM |
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We talked about going straight to StoW, and S&F but really I cant say that we will. It all depends on her and how she is doing at that time. She might come home for a while to just relax and be a dog for a bit then come back to finish. Its still early, only been 2 months.
I'm going back to see her tomorrow I'll try to take some more pics or vids if I can. |
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