I just started the FF process with my 8mo GSP.  She's doing well with hold, and I'm really taking my time on this step.  Everything I've read says not to rush it and to really ingrain it into their heads.  I'm posting progress in the blog section if anyone is interested.

Problem is, when I started she was good at sitting for me.  As we're going along she keeps fighting me and won't stay seated and squirms when the roller comes near her face.  She stands up or jumps up and tries to box me.

She knows sit, but won't listen to the command.  She will still whoa so I have been training her from standing but I can't get her to stay seated.  I spoke with Evan Graham and he said not to move forward to the pinch until she is good seated.

My question, I'm starting to get frustrated so I think I'll take a few days off, but how do I get her to remain seated?  She knows the command but is flat out disobeying it.  I don't like negative reinforcement but any other suggestions?

On a side note she's started not listening to this command overall, in the house, etc.  She still comes every time and whoas when I command and walks at heel but is fighting the sit.

One question (I haven't read you blogs, but I will), how did you start your FF training?  I usually put a leather glove on and then work with putting my fingers in the mouth and getting them to hold my fingers.  Then when I add the release, I wiggle my fingers and the dog catches on fast.  This is not as intimidating as a dowel or dumbell or other items.  Later I progress to holding all kinds of things.  Maybe you also need to back up in the FF training.  You may be moving forward on her too fast and putting too much pressure on her.  She is after all only 8 months old.

OK, read the blog and some things come to mind.

1) You need to teach the sit if you want her to be solid.  That is totally separate from the FF.

2) I think you are moving very fast with the FF, maybe before she is ready.  You don't say if she is taking the dowel easily now.  Can you hold the dowel in front of her and command her to take it?  What ahout taking it off the floor?  I would not start the ear pinch until she is actively reaching for the the dowel from in front of her and off the floor.  Also, if she is mouthing while holding you can tap either side of the dowel and she will clamp down on it.

3) Continue to work the hold and do not advance until she is solid with a hold and walking with the dowel.

4) Remember she is still a puppy.  Too much pressure and she will backslide.

5) Don't forget the praise.  Make this fun, not boring.  Number of reps is not as important as getting one or two good ones.  You are stopping on a positive, that is very good.  I also play a keep away game when I teach the FF.  I show them the dowel or whatever and say its mine and tease them with it.  Really builds their desire and drive.  Even later when I first starting sending them to fetch, I make it a game.  I show the dowel, bumper and swing it some and really get them wanting it.  Then I play the 1, 2, 3 take it game.  They are ready to burst off the mark when I release them. Again building desire.

Good luck!!

Wow, lots of responses there. I had to read them a few times, but thanks everyone for the responses.

I do praise her, as soon as she takes the roller (I'm using a paint roller), while she's holding it and after the release. Lots of verbal praise and petting. I always end on a good note and with a fun retrieve of the roller. I tease her with it and toss it 10-15 feet out and she picks it up and returns it to hand.

I never formally taught sit and proofed it like whoa and come, but that being said she does know the command. I hold her by her collar with my left hand, and with my right hand holding the roller I bring it up to her mouth, she usually takes it but if she doesn't I easily slip the side of my hand to her front teeth and she opens and takes the roller. Once she has accepted the sit she takes it easily.

She holds on her own, I do not clamp her jaw shut or anything. At first I kept my hand near her mouth and as she tried to spit the roller I'd have my hand there to keep her head in an up position that wouldn't allow her to spit it out as easily. She holds well without struggle. No mouthing. We're at the point now that when she has the roller in her mouth I can move my right hand completely away from her and she still holds. She holds with good eye contact as I praise her, until she releases.


Honestly I don't feel that I'm pushing her too fast, I've only been doing a hanful of reps each time. I end on a good note, and if there is sign of too much pressure like these sitting issues I step back to something easier and end the session on a win.

 

I believe that I saw a post that you made over on the Versatile Dog site, basicly asking the same questions.

There was a lot of valuable information that was offered by very competant trainers.

Trust these guys and heed their warnings of pushing your pointing dog down the Labrador training ways.

They are totally different dogs!!!

Let your pup go through a hunting season before you start the force training. Your pup will retrieve just fine for you your first season out.

Some of the best training your pup will receive will be out learning on it's own.

You also mentioned that you had joined a NAVHDA chapter, which leads me to believe that your puppy has not been Natural Ability tested yet?

If this is the case, you are putting the cart a mile a head of the horse with force fetch training. Sit back, take a deep breath, and relax. Get your dog in front of birds every chance you get. Your dog will do what comes naturally. Watch your dog. Your dog will probably teach you more about bird hunting than you would expect. Take advantage of the experience that the seasoned NAVHDA members can offer. Your pup is only 8 months old. Sign it up for a NA test and have fun with your pup.