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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 01/29/2009 10:02 AM |
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I am sure it's been covered before, I searched it but couldn't find the right answers.
Tessa is 7 months old now and in April the local NAVHDA chapter will hold its tests. I wanted to enter her in the NA test but after talking to a NAVHDA member (ever so helpful) it sounds like she may not be ready.
I know that while this test is not looking for a trained dog, the dog needs some exposure before the test. Tessa's been exposed to water (albeit, in the winter, so limited swimming, but she does love it), fields, some tracking, quail wings, quail and pheasant scent, etc. Puppy stuff, really. Just in the last 4 weeks she really started pointing a lot, and holding the points a little longer, and stalking during walks. She's pretty good with recall esp whistle command, whoa, and "here" which means "check in with me for a sec", and turning on whistle. Cooperation is pretty good but she is going into adolescence plus is getting more serious about her hunting, so I am finding myself enforcing things more often than 2 months ago.
The main problem is that she has never been put on live birds. NAVDHA says he puts his dogs on at least 10 pheasants before the NA test. It's difficult for me to do because I don't have the setup to accomodate keeping birds, nor the area to let them go. I was thinking to maybe contacting a nearby GSP training kennel that has birds and buy the bird along with a private training session. In addition, NAVDHA has their first training day on 3/21 (just two weeks before the test) and I was invited to join them, with the dog.
Do you have any thoughts or advice on this? |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7836
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| 01/29/2009 11:36 AM |
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I would suggest you participate in the training day and also talk to the GSP trainer. I took Ringo to a training day when he was 4 mos old and it was amazing how fast his natural abilities kicked in. The training day was put on by a Weimer club and was patterned for the AKC Hunt Tests. Ringo was introduced to birds and then the gun and did great. Then we ran in two braces that actually mimicked the JH test for us. He did good in the first brace, but once he understood what he was supposed to do he did fantastic. In the second brace he got out in front and found all the quail which had been scattered in the field from the morning braces. We both had a blast and were totally hooked. Of course, this was a Hunt Test and not NAVDHA, so no water, etc.
Good luck and keep us posted on how this develops.
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Rugergundog
Saginaw Michigan USA
MH
Posts:395
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| 01/29/2009 12:13 PM |
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Your dog is just fine for the NA test. In fact your dog is darn near the prime example of who should be NA testing.
As for your dog being on 10 birds prior to the NA test.....baaa hum bug. 1 or two birds for a dog the age of your dog should be plenty to prime the pointing instinct, since you have exposed him to the wing and such. Go get 2 birds. Most places will sell you a box or use a shoe box. Put one bird out and use a small string or such to hook on a foot so it can't fly but maybe 10 yards. Expose your dog to it while its on a checkcord. You will prob get a good few uses (points) out of that bird. Do the same thing a day or two later with the other bird. After that if your dog has any desire to hunt (ill bet it does) it will be gonzo for bird smell.
Then for tracking.......grab the string on the birds leg (after either you or the dog killed it) and drag the bird a good 10-20 yards and stash some treats at the end with the bird. Go get your dog and let him track it (while on the CC).
Otherwise just keep working the obedience and you will be perfect. |
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Saginaw Michigan
Brittany- Ruger
GSP- Kilian |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 01/29/2009 1:03 PM |
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You need to get your dog to search and the only way to get a 4 search is get the dog on birds. I do not believe that in NA they will use pheasant,probably chukar and /or quail,ask. To buy pheasant is way more $$$$ then the other birds. This is not training, it is exposure. You also want your dog exposed to a 20 or 12 gauge shotgun. It will be fired twice during the field portion. For water,you dog needs to swim twice, no retrieves required. For the track, take one of those birds you will buy,pluck out the flight feathers on both sides,you can leave the flight feathers for her to scent or you can pull out some breast feathers and leaver then on the ground where you et the bird free for her to smell,tie a 10' colored string to it's foot and set if free toward cover.Chase the bird a little if you have to. Then go get your dog.
Show her the pile of feathers,lead her down the scent trail about 10' or so,you can point to the ground, and leaver her alone. Don't look at her, her do anything except look where the bird went.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 01/29/2009 2:03 PM |
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He did say they use pheasant. And, could you please clarify the last sentence? "Don't look at her, her do anything except look where the bird went."
Thanks.
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 01/29/2009 2:25 PM |
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I am surprised they use pheasant in the field for young dogs,on the track portion a pheasant is always used. If they are using pheasant it would be good to get Tessa on them right away. You don't want a young and inexperienced dog to have her first encounters with a large bird that can possible spook her to be at a test,especially with gun fire present. It would be good to start out with a smaller game bird and work your way up to a pheasant.
What I mean by my last sentence is that after you set her on the track you don't want to influence her in any way. A look, an expression, a movement by the handler can make or break a track. If you ignore her she will do what comes naturally to her and hopefully that will be to leave you and follow the scent.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 01/29/2009 5:52 PM |
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| Oh ok. Thank you! |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Rugergundog
Saginaw Michigan USA
MH
Posts:395
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| 01/29/2009 7:14 PM |
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They also use pheasant in the tracking part here in MI. I would suspect if they pluck flight feathers from a quail it won't go very far...but a big old pheasant will. In my area quail are used for all other parts of the field portion.
Get you a few birds and some string if you can't hold many of them. Even a little pen works. All you are looking for is a point! |
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Saginaw Michigan
Brittany- Ruger
GSP- Kilian |
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 01/29/2009 8:26 PM |
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As I said, I am not set up at all to keep any birds at my apartment...nor do I have a good place to set them up...the fields and woods we go to are part of a public park, I don' think that would work.
I will probably just contact that training kennel to set up a few private "lessons" with birds.
Thanks for all the input. I will post here how it goes. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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bravepoint
North Gower, ON Canada
MH
Posts:894
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| 01/30/2009 7:06 AM |
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Tessa,
I'm somehwere in between the other replies. I think that you should get your dog out on birds in a field at least once before the NA test so the dog knows why it's out there. As far as tracking, I only had the opportunity to do a couple of dead bird drags with quail before Terra's test and she tracked the pheasant no problem. Good luck. Let us know how it goes. Rayne won't NA test til our test in August but then we have several feet of snow on the ground and usually can't get out in the field til May.
Gail |
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Gail, Moka, Avery, Terra & Rayne
Bravepoint GSPs
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r.r.rouse
MH
Posts:106
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| 01/30/2009 8:30 AM |
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Tess, first thing you should do is call the test sect. to verify if quail or chucjker will be used in the field portion of NA test. I think they meant pheasants will be used but in the tracking portion.
When you have a pheasant to run a track with only pull flight feathers on one wing. I like to attach a 20 ft section of orang survey tape to a leg on the bird this will help you with following the path the pheasant ran.
I would recomend you contact your local NAVHDA chapter contact and ask them if they knew of any members that you might call for helping to expose your pup for NA testing. Your breeder might help you as well. NAVHDA has a store on there site that has a AIMS book you can order and read. This will explain some of the test and different test levels. They also have a book called the Green book that is very helpfull some what out dated but still helpfull.
Exposer is all that you and your pup need for NA testing . Sounds like you are on the right track yourself. Good Luck. |
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 01/30/2009 9:25 AM |
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Okay I have two more months to get her exposed to birds. Will talk to my obedience trainer next week, she actually also runs gun dog seminars and camps and I would think that if she can't get her on birds, she likely knows someone who can. As mentioned, there is another kennel about 20 miles from here that may be my best bet.
You might be right that they use pheasant for tracking only.
Will keep you all posted. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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snips
n.ga.
MH
Posts:413
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| 01/31/2009 10:03 PM |
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You need to get her scent pointing quail. I would not care if she was on phes, I never used phes in preparing for the test, I used quail for tracking training. If they track a quail they will track a phes. We are in N Ga, if you need any help give us a call. Walnut Hill Kennel. |
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brenda |
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 02/01/2009 8:54 PM |
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| Hi Snips, Walnut Hill Kennel comes up again and again, people think highly of you. I've been to your site, but it's too far away from me - other side of Atlanta and up the state. I think it's at least 3 hours one way. If I can combine it with some kind of other project I will give you a call. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7836
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 02/05/2009 7:25 AM |
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| Aaaah....interesting! |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 04/06/2009 1:13 PM |
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Okay, you may already know how it went but I recap as a conclusion to this thread:
Field portion was done with mostly quail and one pheasant, and there was one dead pheasant Tessa found that had not been planted, it just happened to be there, and I think I met him during the training sessions two weeks earlier  .
Tracking was done with pheasant.
I never got her the private training sessions (conflicts of scheduling on both sides) but did take her to the NAVHDA training day two weeks prior, where she tracked a pheasant twice, with great success. The field portion went so-so, she was very birdy, strong desire to hunt but she only found one of three quail (in about 15 minutes) with one weak point. That's where they said she needs a lot more exposure. She did get to see some birds upclose and was not spooked, quite the contrary, and was not gunshy.
During the test, the tracking went wrong, nothing like on training day, and I can guess on about 5 things that went wrong or different, but she still got a 2 on tracking. The field portion went much better than expected, she seemed to take a long time to settle into her more intense hunting mode but eventually found several birds, pointed at least three times.
Most dogs were 1 year old and over, and a lot of those got Prize I (Tessa got Prize II). So I would say, yes, ideally, more exposure would have resulted in a better score. I also now see when people say going into this test unprepared is unfair to the dog. The ability may be there but it does need to be tickled out before the test. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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