Rylos Franklin Co Missouri
Posts:8

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| 01/24/2009 7:18 PM |
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| i have a question about whoa training. Been working with my 13 week old GSP. He is picking up on all the basics commands ( sit, heal, come, etc etc). I just can’t seem to figure out how to get the “whoa” thing started or instilled in him.
I have been holding him and throwing his training dummies and giving the command “whoa” he stays with out a fight or anything like that. He wags his tail and cocks his ears and watches where the dummy went. Let him go and he runs and grabs it, returns it without delay. Does not run around, comes straight back and gives you the dummy.
Try it without holding him and he is off to the races. Runs straight to the dummy and returns it with out a problem. Just will not listen to the “whoa” command.
Any tricks what am I doing wrong? I have trained other dogs (not gun dogs) and never had had problems. Well, none that I could not get straightened out.
Thanks for the help.
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It was'nt me...... It was the one armed man! |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


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| 01/24/2009 7:33 PM |
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Most 3 month old puppies will probably hold whoa for about 2 seconds. And perform "commands" b/c they want to and not b/c we gave a command.This age is fun time not obedience time. Be easy on the little guy. It would probably be easier if you didn't throw something for him. At this point the focus is not on you, which is where you want it to be. When we do play retrieves we don't do whoa. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Rylos Franklin Co Missouri
Posts:8

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| 01/24/2009 7:46 PM |
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Huummmm... now that i understand! Thanks. He is a funny little booger! He loves to run into the kids room and grab thier stuffed animals and bring them to ya. By the time the nights over i have a good little pile built up! The best thing is when the wife scolds him he runs and finds something of hers and prances in front of her and starts to chew/ mouth it! It makes her soooooo mad.... and i just sit there and laugh and make it worse!!!!! |
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It was'nt me...... It was the one armed man! |
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 01/24/2009 9:36 PM |
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| Yep, I agree, way too young for a solid whoa. I started Tessa out holding a whoa for her meals, at the door, and to pose for photos but that was just brief moments, sometimes longer, with no temptations or fetch. She is now 7 months old and about a month ago I started unclippng the leash and throwing a ball as temptation, we had a few failed attempts but she is getting pretty solid. I still consider this the puppy whoa...as more complex training techniques will need to be used to perfect it for field use. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 01/24/2009 9:40 PM |
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Here she is at 6 months...eyes on the Orbee ball, but holding the whoa.

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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7843


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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


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| 01/25/2009 8:29 AM |
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AND HIDE THE BARBIES!!!! and her shoes. TB is correct. GSPs have a prey sharpness bred in and they will "kill" your slippers,stuffed toys,ect. It is part dominance and part prey sharpness. Put an end to it and your leader role will be more clearly defined. Everyone loves a cute puppy but that cuteness turns into bossy real fast. Don't ya love puppies? |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Rylos Franklin Co Missouri
Posts:8

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| 01/25/2009 2:06 PM |
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Thanks for the insight. He gets scolded when he grabs the kids stuff and then I sub it with one of his chew toys and it seems to be working. Yes he loves my daughters barbies!!!!! He seems to be a smart little pup. Its funny how fast they can turn your mistakes against you or use them to train you! About the biggest problem that I am having is the potty training thing. But hey, he is a puppy, what ya gonna do! He piddles in his kennel when left unattended for a short time (an hour or more). I have never had a problem with a dog doing this before him. It seems more like separation anxiety without the destructive behavior stuff. Still trying to figure out that one! |
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It was'nt me...... It was the one armed man! |
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DavyLee Raymond, Maine
 SH Posts:51


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| 01/27/2009 5:04 AM |
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| OK this whoa related so not really hijacking the thread... Gunner will Whoa/Stay either command but will not do it when out of arms reach, will whoa on going through doors, waiting for food, waiting for release command to retrieve and will whoa on point, but you can't just say whoa when he is off by himself to get him to stop in his tracks.. how is this accomplished? |
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DavyLee Raymond, Maine
 SH Posts:51


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| 01/27/2009 5:04 AM |
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| Oops it probably doesn't matter but he is 3-1/2 yo |
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 01/29/2009 9:24 AM |
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Stopping the whoa dead in the tracks requires the more intricate setups I was hinting to in my first reply. It may involve the use of the whoa table, check cord contraptions to hold the dog in place from afar, etc.
www.versatiledogs.com/ask/point31.html
i68.photobucket.com/albums/i13/ANKEROUTFITTERS/085_85.jpg
Larry Mueller uses a barrel instead of a table, which really forces the dog to hold stockstill other wise he strangles himself...I doubt it is as cruel as it sounds (I like Mueller's general training approach), just very old school and not everyone may agree with that method.
There are many books, DVDs, websites out there, with info on how to teach it. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Rugergundog Saginaw Michigan USA
 MH Posts:395


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| 02/02/2009 11:40 AM |
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I don't think its bad to introduce your puppy to the command, but don't enforce or correct when it does not comply. I started the whoa command with my puppy while walking on leash. It was part of the heal training sessions. When we would walk around the block and come to a intersection or such when i stopped i would say softly under my breath "who" and stop him with the lead. As he grew this progressed to me not allowing him to sit when i would say "who". Soon i would "who" him but "I' would keep walking...he new to stop on command. That was all just play prior to ropes and all that crazy get up stuff we used. |
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Saginaw Michigan Brittany- Ruger GSP- Kilian |
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dgrracing SE Michigan
 SH Posts:59

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| 02/02/2009 8:33 PM |
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I disagree with the comment about not correcting the pup if it does not comply.. If your going to intiate any training and command it has to be carried through otherwise don't start it at all. It'll only lead to problems.. Correction is a simple pick and place, no comments or punishment is required just a re-affirmation of the verbal "whoa" command once the pups feet hit the ground.. Whoa training requires benchwork, the dog needs to be off the ground to feel insecure and focus on what they're doing, thus benchwork. Once the dog understands the command you can move to the floor/ground. The Larry Muehler barrel routine works well. The best method I've found which is similar was a harness and pulley. Hook a pulley in the garage rafter, in a tree etc. Hook the rope to a body harness on the dog. When the dog breaks, you or a helper then hoist all 4 of the dogs feet off the ground. The beauty of this is that you can do it almost anywhere.. I got lucky, I only had to do this exercise twice, she'll now stop on a dime even at 60 yards away..
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Rylos Franklin Co Missouri
Posts:8

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| 02/04/2009 1:58 PM |
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| Hey everybody, thanks for all the help guys!!! a lot of good info! |
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It was'nt me...... It was the one armed man! |
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 02/04/2009 3:09 PM |
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| Rugergundog...that's not a bad idea, to incorporate it in the training like you describe. I always taught my dogs to "down" when I drop the leash...we'd be walking, I drop the leash and keep on going, while the dog downs. I will start practicing the whoa during the walks. However, I do follow through with a correction if needed once I give a command otherwise, as dgr said, they learn that they don't always have to do as expected. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Rugergundog Saginaw Michigan USA
 MH Posts:395


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| 02/06/2009 12:06 PM |
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Well what i meant by not correcting the dog I could of better said don't punish the dog. Reality is most 12 week old dogs won't whoa like we would like. Correcting the behavior to the expectation i would think is fine, but to instill some sort of harsh discipline would just frustrate the dog and prob create other problems.
The whoa barrel and body harness both work good but I don't think they are needed for the everyday Joe who spends time with the dog and incorporates the whoa into other routines.
I know a guy who got the majority of his Whoa training done with his screen padio door. Before he would let the dog go outside to play....just as it would bolt to run out he would close the door in front of it (dog would at first run in to it) and say "who". He said he did that 5-10 times a day before he would let him out to pee or play and before you know it the foundation for Whoa was done.
Its a fun thing to work on but like most other restraint to natural drive tasks it takes a bit to have it 100%. Just when you think you have the dog Whoa broke, toss a living big old fat cackl'n rooster in his face....many will bolt after it! |
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Saginaw Michigan Brittany- Ruger GSP- Kilian |
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