So...my hands are still full, but things are coming along. Both my girls are 6mos, just got spayed two weeks ago, almost. Stitches come out on friday--yeay! Hopefully I can let them out to run hard like they need to in the yard.

We've been training basic commands and do great, however, theres still the issue of leash pulling-man theyre strong-especially at first. Choke collars work a bit better than std. collars, but I think I'll have to resort to a halti ??? Recall is reliable inside, but outdoors is a different story....Cleo is alltogether a different dog. Completely and totally immersed in the birds and critters outside. She even points looking out our great room! Its a beautiful sight

I'm not sure how to progress though. I use a long lead outdoors, and that seems to slow Cleo up a bit, and should she decide to take off I have been able to get them used to a "stop" command and they'll sit. That is unless theres a bird in a tree nearby!

Is there an age where the intensity of her natural ability softens?

I do train seprately, and together, and even use my kids to help with outdoor recall, so that if they don't come when I call, my kids to the correction.

I also wondered how I can get both dogs to respond in situations where there are new ppl/things/situations-they get so xcited they forget all their commands. I'm supposing this just comes with practice and maturiey?

Any thoughts or info would be great! Thanks!

For the pulling when on leash, I would try a pinch collar.  You will be amazed and even though they look like something out of the Spanish Inquisition, they are really very safe and do not hurt.  They need to be fitted right behind the dogs ears and fairly snug though to work right.  They work by simulating a mother dogs correction when the tines come together (mother dogs will bite the neck gently to correct).  You do not have to give hard jerks with the pinch collar to correct. Here is a link to a place where you can buy them online: www.jjdog.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc (you may also be able to get them locally).

I like the quick release ones as they are easier for me to put on and off.  As with any training collar, you only want to leave these on while you are using them.

With regard to the recall, that takes more time and allot of work.  It sounds like you are doing it right, but you may be going to fast for your dogs.  The sequence is:

1) Work on leash in a quiet place until you have a solid recall.

2) Add distractions, but still on leash.

3) Add distance with no distractions, still on leash.

4) Now add distraction with the distance and still on leash.

5) Remove the leash, no distractions.  You may have to shorten your distance.

6) Now add distractions again off leash and in a secure space.

If the dog does not respond or tried to go astray while on the leash, give him a little pop to get him moving or reel him in to you.  In any case you get him to come to you and then he gets lots of praise.  It the dog is off leash and does respond, you have taken him off leash too soon.  Put the leash back on and continue training.  If the dog responds to the recall, but goes astray put the leash back on and continue working your dog.  In any case you always want to the dog to come to you, no choice here so if the dog is off leash and goes astray go get the dog and put him in his starting spot, add the leash and then recall him.  Remember you want the dog to think you are the center of the universe so you have to be the most wonderful thing in the world.  You do that with treats, toys. lots of enthusiam.  Whatever works.  Do NOT though every fuse if the dog comes to you.  Even it the dog has run from you and then comes back.  He gets a good boy for coming back, even if you are made that he has run at first.  Dogs live in the moment, so he will never understand your anger that he ran.  He will only think you are mad because he come back to you.

The recall is one of the hardest exercises to teach and can take a long time to get consistency.  My middle female GSP took until she was 2 years old to become reliable.  Now she is the most reliable dog I have.  What I am getting at is every dog is different and responds differently.  Your dogs are still puppies. So, have patience, be consistent, and continue to work the recall.

One other note, many of us on the board at some point use an ecollar to get the reliable recall.  That is an option eventually, but you need to know what you are doing before you attempt to use one.  Not because they are mean, but because you have to have really good timing to get it right.  Right now though I think you dogs just need reps.

You also should be introducing your dog to lots of different experiences and people.  This will take the excitement off of allot of things and will help their focus.  You can also do focus exercises with them where you get their attention and then reward when they are looking at you.  Gradually add time and distractions as with any exercise.

Hope this helps.  Sorry it is so long. 

We are enjoying our first GSP 5-month old puppy, Otto, but will quickly add that he is a handful. I'm not sure I could live through two Ottos at the same time - so bless you for doing so.

We were having a very difficult time with Otto pulling hard on the lead, even though he gets lots of exercise. We tried several methods: becoming a "fencepost" when he pulled; snapping the collar, etc. However, none of these worked.

Getting a choke collar or prong collar as our next step put me outside of my comfort zone. I agree these can be useful tools in our training toolbox, but wanted to try something else first. So just a few days ago we bought a Gentle Leader (head harness). Otto fought it a few times, but shows great progress in accepting it - and most importantly no pulling on the lead.

I realize the head harness might not work for all dogs, but we are having good success with it - so far.

Good luck,

NanVA

As a trainer the only problem I have with the head harness is it does not ultimately train your dog to stop pulling.  You will have to continue to use it.  So, my goal when I use a choke or prong is to continue training and gradually fade the training collars and still have a dog that walks nicely on leash. Same thing when I use an ecollar.  Since my dogs eventually become therapy dogs they have to learn to behave with a flat buckle style collar as all other types of collars (including the head harness) are not allowed.  All that said, it the head harness works for you and you are happy, that is all that really matters.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. I've become leary of using choke chains after reading several articles about trachea damage - with concerns I wouldn't use it properly.

Would you offer some suggestions on how to properly use the prong collar?

Thanks,

NanVA

The trachea problems are why allot of folks use the pinch collar.  I use both.  With regard to the choke as long as you give them a pop and loosen the leash you have no problems with trachea damage.  For a real puller though this can be a challenge.

With the pinch most dogs don't ever really challenge it.  It should be fitted right behind the ears and snug enough so it does not slip down.  Note though, because GSPs have slender tappered necks it will still slip down and you will have to pull it up from time to time.  Once you get it on the dog a gentle pup is all the correction you will need.  Most of the time they correct themselves when they pull.  I got the small and added in enough links for it to fit with my boy when he was 5 months old.  Other than that you want to train just as you would with any other collar.  Be sure and take it off though when you aren't training or walking.  The reason you don't want it to slip down their neck is that is where all the muscles are and the correction is not as effective.  This is true of any collar.  It will work better if fitted to rest right behind their ears.  Hope that helps, and good luck.

Let us know how it goes.

If you want to order a pinch collar online, J & J Dog Supply has a good selection.  I like them because they offer a quick release version that is easier to put on and off.  They are a little more expensive, but very well made.

www.jjdog.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc

"No" is the most wonderful command you can teach. I find it works in almost any situation, at least outside. I've even been successful calling Michers off of birds and squirrels with it: "No, come" works every time.

It even works with our border collie.

I put a prong on Ringo when he was 4 mos old.  I bought the small from J & J and some extra links which I have had to add now that he is almost 8 mos old.  Still wearing the small though.  So, I don't see any problems with putting the prong on your pup.  The caution is there 1) to protect them, and 2) to warn you to be careful with a pup (of course, anything you do with a pup should come with that warning ).

To use a prong, it should be fitted just below the ears so it won't slip down on the neck.  Pearl of wisdom here:  The prongs, or any collar, tends to slip down on the neck of a GSP as their necks are slim and tapper.  So, you will have to periodically pull it back up.

You may have to remove some links (or add some links) to get the proper fit.  I think the small is 14 inches, so measure you dogs neck and you will know if you have to do the add or remove.  Keep the links as you will need them as he grows.

Put the collar on your dog and hook the leash up (I hook to the ring, not the swivel as the swivel is not that strong).  Now walk your dog.  He will get a correction on his own if he pulls and should back off.  It may take a few tests on his part, but it will work.  If he still is pulling, give a little pop (not a jerk or tug, etc.), and release.  The thing you do not want your dog to do is to hit the end of the leash running with the prong on, so initially stay away from the flexi or long leashes until he gets used to the collar.  Also, when you correct him tell him easy.  He will start associating the word easy with the correction and eventually back off with just the word.  This will come in handy when you switch to a regular collar. When you are done with your walk or training take the prong off.

This is a pretty good short lesson on the prong: www.fsas.ca/DogInfo/Training/Prong_Collar_Use.htm

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Ditto what singltrak says.  The prong is a life saver and if you have a bad back you will understand.  Whether using a prong or choke it is always pop and release.  Same applies to a flat buckle too, you just don't have near the control with a flat buckle collar.