Welcome to

          shorthairs.net

  Login  Register Wednesday, June 19, 2013     
Subject: training timeline
Prev Next
You are not authorized to post a reply.

Author Messages
List_HouseUser is Offline
Midland, Pa (western, Pa)
MH
MH
Posts:142


11/24/2008 6:02 AM  

What are your thoughts on training timeline.  I see some that say let it be a pup, some say start now.  Give us some Age timelines that you follow.  What are your goals, know name by....know come by...know heel....can find birds....gun broke and so on until you can take the dog out and hunt over it.

TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
MH
MH
Posts:2387


11/24/2008 9:54 AM  
I think that depends on the dog mainly, but I am looking forward to the replies.

I myself like for them to be pups until about 1 year old/adolescence/sexual maturity. That doesn't mean they get a free pass during that year. Basic obedience (sit, come, down, whoa) starts right away. Timeline? "Sit" they learn fast, usually with a day or so. Same goes for their name, if you say it often enough. However, "come" is a long and ongoing process. "Heel" not until after 6 months or so, but leash manners (loose leash) training starts right away, how long it takes until the dog gets it depends on the dog, mine was a little difficult. Etc etc. I simply incorporate basic obedience in daily life.

I have heard that like children, pups under 5 months learn REALLY fast, and the more the pup learns, the better his brain develops. I teach my dogs as many words as I can, not just their name and sit down stay come, but also whoa, kennel, exit, wait, fetch, leave it, out, let's go, the names of different toys etc.

In addition, I "condition" for field work. There are two books that were recommended to me by NAVHDA which are in line with their approach: Expose pup (first year) to EVERYthing, different fields and terrains, water, woods, uplands, marshed, camping trips, car trips, other dogs, etc etc. Fetch and tracking can be started but again, this is a puppy so don't overwork it, keep things fun, short (short attention span) and always stop while the pup is still excited about "the game", stop before the pup wants to stop. Don't always take others along, make sure to spend some time one on one with the pup to strengthen the bond and "work" partnership.

For me the first turning point is around 5-6 months when they start resisting a bit, ignoring commands that you KNOW they understand, at that point I want my pup to learn that there are consequences for that.

At 1 year old I expect the dog to have an understanding of all the commands, it's just the duration of the training sessions and execution of commands (longer down-stays) that will increase, e.g. more pressure, etc.

To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4476


11/24/2008 6:22 PM  
When people say "let a pup be a pup" I think this saying has different meanings for different people. I let a pup be a pup with limitations. From the day a puppy enters our home they are taught their name, sit, whoa,beginings of fetch(hold,play retrievs),tracking,kennel,crate training and manners-no pulling on leash.It is the amount of pressure that is applied that I feel makes all the difference. Pressure is added as maturity increases but I feel that at 6 months the amount of pressure can be increased significantly. I have a different agenda than most when it comes to training. I test in the German system and around the 14-18 month of a pup the pup needs to be quite trained.While the test at this age is still natural ability is also includes several trained portions which if not performed can fail the dog. I use these tests as a breeding guide for my dogs, so it is very important to me to pass these tests. Because of this training is stepped up quite a bit for my dogs come 6 - 8 months old.
If I were to put a time line on training I would say 2-6 months old the dog ought to understand sit,come,whoa,heel,play retrieve with a partial recall,kennel, be developing their search pattern,learning how to use wind, have been introduced to birds and retrieved some, introduced to gunfire, introduced to water, retreiving from water(if weather permits) and tracking.
6-14 months old these same lessons are done with increased pressure to maintain my standard of performance, I will collar condition to help with training when needed,the recall,sit,heel and whoa are well engrained thru repitition and force fetch has been completed and the dog is going thru walking fetch,fetch-no-fetch,force to pile,water searches will be increased to as often as can be performed and retreive of dead and live ducks will be performed as well as actual upland hunting. The dog will be trained to be steady to shot. Tracking will have increased to blood with bends and wooded areas.
Progress is not a steady climb that includes a few dips here and there. There are good days and BAD days. I feel more is learned in 15 minute increments. So we have 2-4 sessions throughout the day on different lessons.
I hope I have clearly written my time line for my dogs.
The best way to know your time line is to know what you want your end result to be and make a plan. If you are going to test your dog KNOW the rules of that venue.


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
ErricUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:95


11/24/2008 8:41 PM  
I always thought that come and recall were the same thing....the way you worded it they aren't. Can you explain the difference?
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
MH
MH
Posts:7926


11/24/2008 9:27 PM  

Ericc - Not sure how Pixie does it, but I have two recalls. One I use in the obedience ring (come) and it means come and sit in front of me.  The other I use everywhere else (here) and it means drop whatever you are doing and get back to me fast and check in.  They do not have to sit on the here command, but come back to me.  I then release them to go back to whatever they were doing.  Both of these commands are recalls, but the end result is different.


Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4476


11/25/2008 6:00 AM  
2-6 months old the dog ought to understand sit,come,whoa,heel,play retrieve with a partial recall,....

Ericc, are you referring to this quote?
It was my wording. They mean the same thing.
TB,
I have 1 recall b/c much of my training relys on the dog coming straight to me and either sitting or heeling. I do have other commands that are more relaxed and mean to come in my general area but I do not have to release the dog from this coming in to me.They are free to do what they want they just have to stay near. Most times it is the end of our activity and we are heading in or if there is another dog that I don't want them to mix in with.



"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
MH
MH
Posts:2387


11/25/2008 1:01 PM  
I have two recalls as well, the formal "come" with a very snappy response and sitting in front of me, and "here" meaning toch base with me, she doesn't have to sit, heel or stand still, she just circles back to me and around me until I release her to go back out again, usually right away.

To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
NanVAUser is Offline


Posts:10


12/16/2008 8:48 AM  

I would like to teach Otto these two recalls. Would you share with me how you trained these concepts, or recommend a resource that gives good instructions? Thanks, NanVA.

Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
MH
MH
Posts:7926


12/16/2008 3:08 PM  

I taught the formal obedience "come" first. Your dog needs to know sit and stay prior to teaching the recall.  For the formal "come", I put my dog on a six foot leash and have them sit in heel position.  I give them the stay command and walk out a short distance holding the leash.  I then turn and face the dog and say come.  If they do no come, give the leash a gentle pop an praise when they start to come toward you. When they come run back a few steps to encourage them as you reel in your leash.  Bring them to the front of you and help them sit.  Repeat until they know what you want.  Put them on a check cord and repeat from a further distance.  Once they are reliable on leash in a quiet area, I move to an area with more distractions, but still on leash.  Finally, when they are reliable on leash with distractions, I move back to an area with no distractions and work with the come command off leash.  Using the same methods starting from a shorter distance and increasing, then adding distractions. This process should not be rushed and it varies from dog to dog as to how fast you progress.  if the dog is catching on progress, if the dog seems confused or doesn't respond correctly back up. Repeat 100s of times for a reliable recall.  This sometimes takes a long time to perfect.

For the informal recall, I use the word "Here." This means come back and check in with me.  After the dog starts to understand come, I start training "here." I usually do it in a totally different environment like on a walk and I use a flexi leash.  I will let the dog wander on the flexi and then periodically say here.  If the dog comes, praise.  If not, give a little pop with the leash and praise.  Very quickly they will catch on to this command. This command only gets tough when they are off leash.  For some dogs you may need to use an ecollar to get to a reliable recall every time.  The reliable drop what you are doing and come every time recall is the hardest, but most important command to teach. It often takes 100s of reps and may not be achieved until the dog is 2 years old or so (depends on the dog).  However, it can save a dogs life. 

The use of an ecollar has been covered in several threads on the forum already.  If you have other questions, just ask.


Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
RugergundogUser is Offline
Saginaw Michigan USA
MH
MH
Posts:395


12/25/2008 9:51 AM  
I started training the pup his name, come, potty manners, sit, crate; things like that from day one at 7 weeks old. No real pressure but was training and rewarding. By 12 weeks we had those down, not 100% but the dog understood and added more things one by one. At about 6 months my expectations increased for my dog, not to perfection but that he must comply with my demands (commands). Now at 8+ months he is doing great and still hav'n a damn good time with everything we do. He is e-collar conditioned and im proud to say he has prob only got a poke 5 times as he has had a good foundation to build on.

I say start the sooner the better but don't be too hard the the little fella.

Saginaw Michigan
Brittany- Ruger
GSP- Kilian
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Forums > General > Training > training timeline



ActiveForums 3.7
 Private Message Count
Minimize
You must be logged in to use this module.
UsersOnline
Membership Membership:
Latest New User Latest: NDScoutfam
New Today New Today: 3
New Yesterday New Yesterday: 2
User Count Overall: 3254

People Online People Online:
Visitors Visitors: 101
Members Members: 4
Total Total: 105

Online Now Online Now:
01: MOOSE1
02: smatulewicz
03: Mareezee
04: treed711
 Print   
Home  |  Events  |  Blogs  |  Photo Gallery  |  GSP Forum
 Terms Of Use | Privacy Statement | WHC DNN Site 
Copyright 2008-2011 by Rick Petersen