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CCH
Posts:18


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| 10/21/2008 11:51 PM |
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My 4 mo. old pulls on the leash when we walk her, to the point where she is choking and gagging. We learned at puppy kindergarten to just stop walking and look up at the sky, ignoring her. Sometimes I've changed direction, in an effort to keep Sadie behind me (to teach her I'm the leader, she's the follower.)
Usually either of these tactics result in her biting the leash and attempting to "walk herself" in the direction she wants to go, or in her transforming into a flailing little beast who basically goes bonkers on me (on the sidewalks in front of people's houses as they watch me try to correct my dog...*lovely*) I've sprayed the leash with bitter apple, but I think she must like the flavor.
How do I get this girl to walk nicely on the leash? Help! Nothing I'm doing seems to be working! She seems to want to run (and in the direction she chooses.) |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


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| 10/22/2008 5:35 AM |
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Welcome to the terror of puppyhood.
These are determined dogs and I have found that tactic to not work.
Have you tried a thin choker? Turning away from her when she is about to forge ahead, or turning into her and forcing her to make a left circle? If the dog believes she has to watch you all the time in order not to get stepped on or bumped into she will keep an eye out, which means she will have to stay in heel position. This method requires you pay close attention to her and the slightest movement foward is the signal for you to make your move. It is tiresome and takes a long time to accomplish a decent heel and is the lesson that ,I believe, takes the longest to teach.
You can also try swinging the handle end of the leash in front of her and when she steps foward she will get hit by it and this will keep her back.
What I have been doing with my 5 1/2 month old puppy is teach him to stop (whoa) when I stop. Or to sit when I stop. These are long (1 minute +) sits and whoa. I also throw in a down. This calms them and they don't know when you are going to stop so they need to pay attention, along with teaching them new commands.
Hang in there, one day they all move out....oh wait, that's kids. Sorry. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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bravepoint North Gower, ON Canada
 MH Posts:894


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| 10/22/2008 6:12 AM |
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Pixie bee's suggestions are all good ones. I'm going thru the same thing with my almost 4 month old. If you let them pull and get dragged along behind, you're reinforcing the pulling so it will only get worse. We're working on the turning the other way method which I know will take a long time. The key is consistency. If you want to get somewhere, you could try a Gentle Leader, http://www.petacular.com/products/Gentle-Leader.html or and Easy Walk harness ,http://www.petacular.com/products/Easy-Walk-Harness.html. We switch to the Gentle Leader which Rayne doesn't like much either but at least we get somewhere. Gail |
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Gail, Moka, Avery, Terra & Rayne Bravepoint GSPs
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 10/22/2008 2:07 PM |
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I am relieved to see I am not the only one struggling here! Tessa, 4 months, work in progress. When she walks nicely (a little ahead of me is okay at this point, as long as the leash is loose and she is walking next to me, on either side), I say "nice" and treat. Now she has started looking up to me expecting her treat. Looking at me, that's good, but I started weaning her off the treats, just saying "nice" and every so often I give her a treat. When she starts forging ahead (often enough still) I say "easy"; if she slows down, "nice" and treat; if not, I stop and ignore her just BEFORE she hits the end of the leash. Once she's in the pulling mode, it's a lost cause. When she hits the end of the leash and I stand still, she sits down, as if to contemplate, then immediately returns towards me whereupon we start walking again. It can take forEVER to get anywhere but patience, consistency, is the key, and to not let the dog pull, pull, pull before correcting or redirecting her. Like pixie bee says, that requires paying very close attention to the dog. Re Halti/Gentle Leader, I am not a fan of it, because it just prevents the dog from moving out by making it turn around and face you whenever it forges ahead. It's like leading a horse. By the head, or face. I don't think it's that gentle at all and I don't like that concept. Plus I don't think the dog will actually learn anything from it. I may be wrong. Another reason I don't use it, I was told that if I ever want to do any tracking with my dog, the Halti is a bad idea as it conditions the dog to keep his head up and nose off the ground at all times. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7843


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| 10/22/2008 2:35 PM |
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Just be persistent in preventing the pulling. They will continue to test you. If you are walking, just abruptly turn and go the other way and give a yank. They soon start paying attention. Also, don't forget to praise them when they are walking where you want them to walk. Another thing, loosen up on the leash. Don't start with the leash tight. You will be surprised that when you start with that resistance they will pull even harder. That was a hard lessen for me to learn because it was counter intuitive to me. It does work. So start out with the loose leash. When they start pulling just turn and go a different direction. When they are in the right position praise them. Also, remember you are working with a puppy who will be distracted easily, so be patient. You can also keep yummy special treats with you as a reminder to them and a reward. Practice without distractions until you get good results and then add distractions.
If you want to go on a walk before all the training has taken hold, I would suggest a pinch collar. If you use it right, they quickly learn not to pull (they don't like that slight pinch they get when they do), and it is actually safer than a dog that is pulling to the point of choking as they do not risk injuring their throat. The only thing you have to watch with a pinch collar is you don't want to give them a jerk while they are wearing it. You can also train with a pinch collar, but I prefer to train with the collar they will eventually wear as I want them to walk nicely in all collars. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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canter21
 SH Posts:43

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| 10/24/2008 1:27 PM |
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my pup is also a puller, she can't wait to go go go... the puppy class trainer recommended a 'sensible harness' combined with frequent click/treats when moving forward at a relaxed non-pulling speed...it has made a big difference in only a week, and not just when the harness is on.... it doesn't pull at the head, centers at the chest, so if Lola pulls too hard, she just turns herself around to me...instant feed back, & since she'd rather be going forward (unless cookie around , she's already rating herself much more...of course, new/very exciting situations still really call for the harness, but basic working walks at home, in yard, near home are calm with just regular leash/collar..... here's a site to see.... http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=602&ParentCat=202 |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


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| 10/24/2008 2:34 PM |
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Heeling gets better with age. The reason I find this to be true is b/c as the puppy gets older we teach commands and demand the commands be obeyed in all situations and for longer periods of time. Essentially, we set a standard and more times then not we enforce a level of obedience.This learning of commands teaches the dog handler awareness and focus. Focus on us and the task at hand. As they become more focused they become more aware that they can be in control of themselves and be excited at the same time. The reason force doesn't teach heel is b/c the dog has not mentally submiited. They are being physically overpowered. The teaching and learning of commands makes the dog aware that we are in control. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Hogan Wisconsin
 MH Posts:510


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| 10/24/2008 3:34 PM |
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Here is a simple trick. Put a half hitch around the pups belly with the leash. This is done by clipping the leash to the pups collar then take and bring the leash back along the pups back to a point above the pups belly. Take the tag end of the leash around the pups belly and bring it back around and under the leash. With the half hitch around the pups belly it will immediately stop the pulling. They will learn that if they pull it puts pressure on the belly. (which they do not like) I will try and photograph the half hitch and provide a photo. |
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Hogan Wisconsin
 MH Posts:510


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| 10/24/2008 3:46 PM |
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Here is a photo of the half hitch I was referring to. This will put an immediate stop to pulling on the leash.  |
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CCH
Posts:18


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| 10/24/2008 5:07 PM |
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Thanks, Hogan. I will try this. We do use the half-hitch (as taught in puppy kindergarten) but the hitch is up close to her collar, not by her back legs.) And even with the half hitch, she still pulls, chokes and gags. Maybe putting the half hitch closer to her back legs will do the trick. |
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 10/29/2008 7:23 AM |
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I just saw something like it on the web this morning. Tessa and I are not exactly making progress right now...good points pixie bee...I agree...but I am desperate for some progress right now.
www.cabelas.com/link-12/product/0006463617314a.shtml
I think I can finagle it with our German Jaegerleine... |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


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| 10/29/2008 8:12 AM |
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I know. A quick fix feels good. Not pulling is not heeling. This method does not work in teaching heel.I'm not sure how it works with teaching not to pull ,either. Once the loop is off the dog goes right back to pulling. It has been in my experience. Be careful if your lead is leather, it may cut into the dog. Let us know how your walk goes. A nice,easy,realxed walk does feel good. Boy, I can't wait for this training to be over with!! Now that he is 6 months I can go ahead and add more pressure and hopefully get a decent heel in about a month. Or 2, or 3..... |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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naughtydog
Posts:13

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| 10/31/2008 4:48 PM |
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My 4 month old is a puller...if I have a piece of hot dog she will give me attention, if not, pull pull pull.
I hold the hot dog near my face and she gives me good eye contact but I would like this attention without the food.
At what age is a strong lead correction acceptable? i am thinking at 6 months old they should be able to withstand a strong correction.
Also, she is on a flat buckle collar which I find useless, she needs something up near her ears so it has a litle more impact on her.
Do you feel that a choke chain is acceptable still these days?
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7843


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| 10/31/2008 9:49 PM |
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First, I think choke chains and pinch collars both have there purpose. I put a choke collar on when I am training and I use it as early as 12 weeks. The correct way to use a choke is with pops ( small and just enough to get the right response). You should not need strong correction if you are consistent. Also, when you get the right response don't forget to praise. When you start off make sure you have slack in the leash. If you have a tight leash it will only encourage pulling. So you have your dog sitting and a loose leash. Start off on your left foot and say heel. When your dog is walking nicely by you praise. If she starts pulling turn and go the opposite direction giving little pops if she doesn't turn automatically. As she starts moving the direction you want, lots of praise. This does two things: 1) it keeps the leash loose and 2) keeps your dogs attention on you as she will never know when you are going to go a different direction. You may do allot of turning at first, but she will catch on. Remember you are in charge and she does not get to pull. Sometimes just stopping will also work as she will come back to you and then you start moving again. She learns she only gets to go forward if she is not pulling. I don't like the stop as well though as it seems to take longer and does not as readily promote keeping the dogs attention on you.
The other option is a pinch, but my guess is you won't need it if you are consistent with a choke. Also, when you are through with training you should take the chain off you dog. It is only for training.
Good luck and post the results or any other questions. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 11/03/2008 11:33 AM |
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Update on Tessa: she is starting to responds well to conditioning. I tried the marker method on her, with "yes" being the "clicker" cue...so when she is just about to pull the leash taut I say "no" and stop, when she comes my way or walks nicely I say "yes" and treat. I use "nice" to reenforce good behaviour without a treat. Done it for a few days and she is actually making a lot of progress. Now she only pulls when we get close to the two fields where we stop to play fetch. That is still a bit of a struggle.
Here is a good article on the science of marker/clicker training:
leerburg.com/markers.htm
Took her to a festival this weekend, and my friends were impressed with how nicely she walked on the leash. Yes, there was some pulling now and then, and picking up stuff fromt he street but no lunging out of control.
I am a big believer in the pinch collar, and will use it when she is older, if needed. My experience is that somewhere between 6-12 months, it usually IS needed. And it usually only takes very few well-timed and strong enough corrections to stop unwanted behavior. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Somer Houston, TX
 MH Posts:280


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| 11/03/2008 2:11 PM |
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Posted By TessaGA on 11/03/2008 11:33 AM
Update on Tessa: she is starting to responds well to conditioning. I tried the marker method on her, with "yes" being the "clicker" cue...so when she is just about to pull the leash taut I say "no" and stop, when she comes my way or walks nicely I say "yes" and treat. I use "nice" to reenforce good behaviour without a treat. Done it for a few days and she is actually making a lot of progress. Now she only pulls when we get close to the two fields where we stop to play fetch. That is still a bit of a struggle.
Here is a good article on the science of marker/clicker training:
leerburg.com/markers.htm
Took her to a festival this weekend, and my friends were impressed with how nicely she walked on the leash. Yes, there was some pulling now and then, and picking up stuff fromt he street but no lunging out of control.
I am a big believer in the pinch collar, and will use it when she is older, if needed. My experience is that somewhere between 6-12 months, it usually IS needed. And it usually only takes very few well-timed and strong enough corrections to stop unwanted behavior.
I used a clicker for training everything with my youngest pup. I figured I'd use her has my guinea pig and do ALL positive reinforcement with her and no aversives (esp. no leash "corrections" for behaviors she doesn't even know). At 11 months she walks on a completely loose lead regardless of where we are and I find it is very easy to generalize behaviors in other distracting enviroments.
Leerburg has got to be the WORST website ever to find out more about clicker training -- try clickerlessons.com if you are interested in learning more about it. Clickertraining.com is also good and rich in information. |
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 11/04/2008 7:17 AM |
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I'll check 'em out but I found the article quite helpful and clear and so far it works for me...I would love to know which parts you feel are lacking, compared to the other clicker methods. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


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| 11/05/2008 3:57 PM |
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I have an update on our heeling. It is raining and I really didn't want to be bothered with the pulling. I have to pick up after him and hold an umbrella. I was in no mood for pulling. I sit him, yes, we do a remote sit now, I go for the leash and call him to me to put it around his neck. I sit him again,say OK and we go. I had to sit him almost every step, pulling him into heel position first.By the time we got around the corner he was heeling decent. By the time we came home he was near perfect. I had his focus, he would look up to me. I was so focused on him and he on me that we did not see the 2 chows that were right upon us! Thank goodness they are calm dogs. He saw them as I pushed foward but it was little more then a look or 2 to catch sight of them. Pulling him into heel and commanding sit kept his focus on me and broke his focus on what he was focusing on.If that makes sense?? Change I can believe in, OOps! Wrong topic. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


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| 11/06/2008 4:35 PM |
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I knew I had this somewhere in my favorites.This site is infomative,go to the training articles, and is excellent for training pet dogs.
http://www.clickersolutions.com/index.html
An update on yesterday's post. Bregon can now be called back into heel,instead of me pulling him into position,with the come command and will sit in the correct postion at heel and wait for the command to move foward. The end of the walk is much better then the begining. He is learning that I control the situation. I think.
Enjoy the site I posted.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 11/07/2008 3:10 PM |
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| Francine, I tried your method with the sit, so far it works, we started it yesterday morning and today there was much improvement. Maybe because sitting slows them down even more than just standing waiting to proceed. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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