I have a dogtra 2500 T&B collar and after many many delays I am finally starting to use it with my nearly 2 year old GSP.  Yesterday was the first zap, and after months of studying the Perfect Start video, I still really couldn't be sure he was feeling it.  He's such a nut in the field that although I tried to hold him still he was constantly fidgeting.  This trainer has a range from 0 - something like 127.   I thought I may have gotten a reaction at 12 or 13, but it was really hard to tell and didn't seem to be having any effect on him as I would pull him back on the checkcord to "here", so I held him still again and didn't get a reaction until 15.  Then that didn't seem to have any effect on him when I called him back, which he did every time, but I think more because he already knows "here".  I know you don't set your collar for what works for someone else's dog, but thought others out there with this collar might be able to tell me what levels they use as reinforcement for whether I am likely in the right ballpark.  Of course, I am going to go through the testing regimen again, gradually increasing levels, the next time we are out.

I think you are doing the correct thing. Look for any indication he felt something (twitch in the neck, eyes, ears etc..) I have the Dogtra 2002 T&B two dog unit and with my rheostat control I usually get the desired results with the unit set on 20. Higher depending on what and where I am training. This might be completely different than what you get on your newer version though.

I would do it again like you said and keep increasing till you see a definate indication he felt something.

By the way how do you like the 2500? I'm hearing some things about the beeper which is now located under the dogs neck, seems it  is a lot harder to hear than what I have? I can hear mine couple hundred yards away in relatively calm wind on flat open terrain, and my hearing ain't what it used to be.

Thanks birdshooter.   That is really helpful to know I am likely in the right ballpark.  I may bump it up a bit.  Pixie, I was just trying to recognize a reaction in my dog to the collar, so that I can then condition him to learn that he can turn it off by coming to me.  Since he already knows the here command and since I am not sure he's feeling the "zap" (I am looking for a very subtle reaction) I've been having trouble figuring out if I am actually teaching him anything.  I think he may just be coming to me for the command without feeling the zap, in which case I am teaching him nothing new and he may bolt when I finally let him off the cord and he gets a higher zap after he takes off.  I think I am going to gradually increase the intensity until I get a more clear signal that he's feeling it. 

DP

Francine,

Obviously you are entitled to your opinion and I as I said previoulsy I make no pretense about being a dog trainer, haven't even played on on TV.  However statements like "you do not" and "the dog should" are stated as absolutes and not as your opinion.  My experience with CC tells me that theses statements aren't absolutely true .

Last Sprping I worked with a professional trainer from Sit Means Sit to teach CC some basic obedience.  (we did not teach her the sit command)Their method involves the use of the ecollar for this task.  CC responded very quickly to that method with no detrimental effects that I can see.  The only time I put the ecollar on her now is when I am in a hunting situation just so she knows that I mean business and  that I know that I can stop her if she were to break.  It is a rare situation that I have to use any stimulation at all.

Jerry

Since I didn't teach her a sit command, I will go through how she was taught the "place" command.  Place is in parentheses because with our Springer we use the word spot and she was trained a little differently.

In our house "place" mans her big soft dog bed that is in the corner of the family room.  However, the "place" can be anywhere you want it to be as long as it has defined boundaries, a rug, towel, anything.  For training outside I used a "place" board, a 2' X 2' piece of plywood on a 2" x 4" base covered with foam padding and canvas.

So to teach her to "place".  On leash she is taken to the "place" and walked up on the place until all four paws are in contact with the "place".  At that point the "place" command is given simoultaneously with a low level stimulation from an ecollar.  With the Sit Means Sit training there is no stay command, if a dog is told to sit that means sit until you are told to do something else.  Same thing apllies with place.  Place means go to your place and stay there until I tell you to do something else.  While she is in "place she can do anything she wants, lay down, turn backflips, doesn't matter as long as no paws touch outside the boundary of the "place".  So as you walk away from the dog if she begins to step off the "place" she is led back on until all four feet are back on and the "place" command is given again simoutaneously with a low level stimulation with and ecollar.  Within a few days CC would go to her place and stay there until she gets an "okay" or "here" command.  This was/is a wonderful thing since we could now eat dinner without her head in our laps.  Other commands are taught in the same manner.

The key here is low level stimulation, not enough to make the dog wince, flinch,  or even visibly react, just enough to make sure you have their attention.  I have put my ecollar on my bare arm at the setting I use for CC and it is no more painful than the tinge units used in physical therapy.  Secondly, I wouldn't have known what exactly to do without the guidance of a professional trainier trained in this method and I would strongly reccommend not using an ecollar without that type of guidance.

Oh, CC was about 3-1/2 months old when we started her on this.

I hope this explanation was helpful.

Jerry

Henry i understand you are from pa and i am also it seems like you are having a hard time understanding what your dog is doing or reacting and you seem a little unsure of yourself in training him. i live near the hazleton area if you are close i can help you out