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Subject: Blank/Starter Pistols ILLEGAL
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NJAg78User is Offline


Posts:17


08/25/2008 9:54 AM  

I just got my 10 mo. old back from three months of training.  It looks like she is going to be a top notch dog, but of course I need to keep up the training, hunt her etc.  I also plan to hunt test her soon and I think most people use a blank pistol/starter pistol during the Junior Hunt Tests when the bird flushes.  But duh, I live in the Peoples' Republic of New Jersey where starter/blank pistols are ILLEGAL.   So for you guys that are training in the five or six states where this is the case, what do you use for training/hunt tests if you can't even own a starter/blank pistol.

carlower1User is Offline
Kansas
MH
MH
Posts:1253


08/25/2008 1:31 PM  
try a pop gun I know they are not as loud, ... but better than nothing
escampbellUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:213


08/28/2008 10:29 AM  
Huh?

I also live in NJ and have been to hunt tests and training days in NJ. All of us have blank pistols when we run our Junior dogs. My friend gave me mine as a gift. I also take weekly lessons (in NJ) where blank pistols are used. If we are breaking the law, then lots of people are! I never fire mine off at home because I live in suburbia and so not train at home, but you better believe I have fired it in hunt tests and in training!

Eleanor in NJ
Potential lawbreaker!

Eleanor Campbell
New Jersey
Sydney, Presto, Price, Ozma and Soleil
pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4449


08/28/2008 10:47 AM  
Try training at Colliers Mills.
I did not know that owning a blank pistol was illegal. Are you sure it is just not illegal to fire in certain areas? If you use state forests/lands call the DEC and ask.
The hunt tests have a license to shoot.

Francine


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
NJAg78User is Offline


Posts:17


08/29/2008 5:48 AM  

Here is the law:

21:3-2. Sale, possession or use prohibited; exceptions

It shall be unlawful for any person to offer for sale, expose for sale, sell, possess or use, or explode any blank cartridge, toy pistol, toy cannon, toy cane or toy gun in which explosives are used; the type of balloon which requires fire underneath to propel the same; firecrackers; torpedoes; skyrockets, Roman candles, bombs, sparklers or other fireworks of like construction, or any fireworks containing any explosive or inflammable compound or any tablets or other device commonly used and sold as fireworks containing nitrates, chlorates, oxalates, sulphides of lead, barium, antimony, arsenic, mercury, nitroglycerine, phosphorus or any compound containing any of the same or other explosives, or any substance or combination of substances, or article prepared for the purpose of producing a visible or an audible effect by combustion, explosion, deflagration or detonation, other than aviation and railroad signal light flares, except (a) that it shall be lawful for any person to offer for sale, expose for sale, sell, possess or use, or explode any toy pistol, toy cane, toy gun, or other device in which paper or plastic caps containing .25 grain or less of explosive compound per cap are used, providing they are so constructed that the hand cannot come in contact with the cap when in place for use, and toy pistol paper or plastic caps which contain less than .20 grain of explosive mixture per cap and (b) as in this chapter further provided.

Except as otherwise may be provided in this chapter, it shall be lawful to sell fireworks to a person only if that person is named as the authorized purchaser in a valid permit issued pursuant to R.S. 21:3-3 or that person is the owner, manager, or designated employee acting as the agent of the owner or manager, of a legally operated commercial enterprise registered pursuant to section 10 of P.L.1991, c.55 (C.21:2-37), and the permit is presented to the manufacturer, seller or distributor at the time of purchase. If the manufacturer, seller or distributor is located in a state other than this State, a purchase shall be by mail order form and a photocopy of the valid permit or registration shall be submitted with the form to satisfy the requirement in this paragraph.

Here are the exceptions:

21:3-7. Effect on existing laws; exceptions

Nothing in this chapter contained shall be construed to interfere with the provisions of chapter 2 of this title ( 21:2-1 et seq.) where the provisions thereof are not inconsistent with the provisions of this chapter, nor shall anything in this chapter contained be construed to prohibit any manufacturer, wholesaler, dealer or jobber from selling at wholesale such fireworks to municipalities, religious, fraternal or civic organizations, fair associations, amusement parks, or other organizations or groups of individuals authorized to possess and use fireworks under this chapter; or the sale of any kind of fireworks, provided the same are to be shipped directly out of the state; or the sale or use of blank cartridges for a show or theater, or for signal purposes in athletic sports, or by railroads for signal purposes, or for the use by the militia, or construed to prohibit the manufacture and sale of aviation and railroad light flares. Any provision of any law in this state inconsistent with any provision of this chapter is hereby repealed.

The question then becomes is dog training an "athletic sport" under this exception.  I also know that under the New Jersey Adminsitrative Code starter pistols specifically discussed as being allowed to be used for dog training on state gamelands

All that being said, if it is common practice at hunt tests, etc. in NJ then I am just going to take my chances.

 

The trick now will be to find an internet seller who will ship to New Jersey.

Thanks for the feedback.

pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4449


08/29/2008 7:12 AM  
Maybe the load is small enough to allow it?
Starter pistols do come with a plug in the barrel and the hand does not come in contact with the cap.
I do know, as another poster says she does herself, many,many people in NJ who possess starter pistols. Have you contacted anyone from the Eastern German Shorthair Pointer Club?
Francine


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
gspdaisyUser is Offline
Bensalem Pa.
MH
MH
Posts:103


09/06/2008 6:48 PM  

just cross the border and buy one in Pa. or NY. I shoot mine every week ,training at colliers mills, and never had a problem.If you are training your dog I doubt anyone will bother you. I would put it securely away going and coming so that there is no question it is being used for training and not something more sinister.

escampbellUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:213


09/06/2008 8:35 PM  
Thanks for the citation. I have spoken to a few people and the general consensus appears to be that firing a blank gun (and I am referring to the kind that is specifically labeled as not being a firearm under the federal definition) in conjunction with training or competing with our dogs at places like Colliers Mill, the English Setter Club, Assunpink and other state and private grounds where dog training and comnpetition is specifically allowed, is not a problem. I think you might well have a problem if you were just standing in your back yard and firing it, even if the yard was large!

I also agree with the above post that when you are driving to and from training, it should be securely tucked away out of site. I take the blanks out, and pack mine in a leather hoslter and in my training bag. It only ever leaves the house or is in the car when I am driving to or from training or competition.

I look forward to meeting you at some events. I have been involved in dogs sports since I was a child, but just recently started training my GSPs for hunt tests. (and my Sheltie for herding!) I have been having a blast. (Pun intended.)

Eleanor in NJ



Eleanor Campbell
New Jersey
Sydney, Presto, Price, Ozma and Soleil
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Forums > General > Training > Blank/Starter Pistols ILLEGAL



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