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EncinoQuailDog
JH
Posts:20
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| 07/10/2008 8:04 AM |
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I don't want this to sound like a brag, but I am happy this is working. Sofie and I were playing in the kitchen last night with a plastic cup, and she started playing a pointing game. I had the cup and would use it similar to a rod and wing. As soon as I stopped the cup and left it, she would stop and point, then hold it . The moment she made the slightest step towards the cup, i'd quickly toss it to the end of the room for her to chase.
Here are my questions: Is there anything wrong with doing this? Can I overdo it? Or should I exploit it to make her hold longer and longer?
If there's any way I can take advantage of this, please let me know your suggestions. Thanks in advance!
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Hogan
Wisconsin
MH
Posts:510
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| 07/10/2008 10:00 AM |
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If you plan to bird hunt with this pup I would stop with the string and wing thing.
Once you know that your pup will point, which you have comfirmed, stop the sight pointing and start on waking up the pups nose.
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EncinoQuailDog
JH
Posts:20
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| 07/10/2008 10:26 AM |
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Good advice.
That's kinda what I figured. Wolters' book Gun Dog suggests using the string and wing to train, teach Whoa, etc., but I had also understood you want dogs to point on scent, not sight. So I was a bit confused.
Thanks! |
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Hogan
Wisconsin
MH
Posts:510
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| 07/10/2008 10:50 AM |
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I'm not a big fan of Wolters book. Don't take every bit of his advice as gospel. There are some rather out dated training methods in the book.
My suggestion on where to go from here is to find a training partner and access to birds.
You need birds to make a bird dog.
Not sure where you are located, but if I were to guess by your forum name, you are from California?
Look for training groups through NAVHDA, NSTRA, AKC....
Good luck |
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EncinoQuailDog
JH
Posts:20
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| 07/11/2008 11:20 AM |
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Thanks again. I've been taking the Wolter's book as a perspective, but there are definitely some things which don't seem up to date.
I'm actually in Encino, Texas. We're about 30 minutes south of Falfurrias, Texas. www.losencinosranch.com We have a native quail population, but I'm also raising and releasing birds with a "Surrogator". Its a new project for me on the ranch, so it stands to reason I should have a few bird dogs, too! All three pups are from the same litter and they're about 16 weeks old now.
I'm just waiting until September to really work the dogs out on the ranch, and I'll be using the "Perfect Start" methods, since they seem natural to the dog.
We'll see how it goes, I guess... |
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Hogan
Wisconsin
MH
Posts:510
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| 07/14/2008 4:18 PM |
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16 weeks? Get those pups on birds now.
You want to have them on birds right away. Putting them on birds before the 6 month mark is the time that really wakes up their prey drive.
Take some quail that have had the flight feathers removed from one wing and throw them about 10 yards in front of the pup and encourage the pups to chase. They will learn very quickly that chasing the birds will not reward them with the bird. You will be surprised at how quickly they will naturally start tracking and pointing the birds.
Next step is steadying the pups on the point.
Again, you need birds to train a bird dog.
Do you have access to pidgeons? These are great training birds and are cheap at twice the price. |
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EncinoQuailDog
JH
Posts:20
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| 08/21/2008 10:36 PM |
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Finally had time to introduce quail to the pups. I'm not an expert, of course, but they went bonkers over the birds. The birds were farm raised, but i think they served the purpose of getting the dogs familiar with scent and some tracking and pointing.
I first got them interested by holding the bird in front of them, moving it around and talking excited. Then set the dogs in an area where they couldn't see where I put the bird. Went back and got the dog on the leash, moving back and forth downwind. One at a time, the dogs would react very similarly by lowering their head to start tracking. On each occasion, I had to hold the dogs by the leash to prevent them from catching the bird. But they were really fired up. I then kicked up the bird to get it to flee, and just about every bird flushed, so I let the dog get a little chase.
Here's the thing... I could tell the bird only flushed about 30 yards. I hope this isn't a problem, but I just let the dog track the same bird again. Each dog did it, and by the second go 'round, they were each holding a point so I didn't have any pressure on the leash.
That's about it, and it was pretty tiring to do with three dogs (I was soaked with sweat in humid 100 degree South Texas heat). I stopped at that stage, but I did get a bird release to start using next.
One question I have is should I start from the begining next time out, if I plan to start using the release? Also, can I overdo this type of training? |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 08/22/2008 10:14 AM |
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Hey,sounds like you are having some fun with your puppy.
I would use the release ASAP. Get those dogs used to not pointing scent and you will have a dandy of a time breaking the habit. I also would not have the dogs track the flushed birds. Reason why is b/c you may teach them to track, keeping their nose down all the time instead of using the wind with head held high, and to do delayed chases. It is okay to hunt on and then work your way back to the flushed bird. I would not let the dogs see or play with any more birds unless you need to increase drive and desire. If you do not need to build drive and desire, I would end the session at the flush - do not let the dogs chase the flushed birds. This will help you later on in teaching steadiness.Some dogs learn to love the chase.
I feel you can never overdo what comes naturally.
Hogan gave great advice.
Wolters book is not that good. I suggest throwing it away.
Try to hook up with other pointing dog owners who hunt. Find methods that work for you and your dog. One person's way may not be your way. I especially am wary of owners/trainers whos dogs are noticably trained with the e-collar.
There are many good books/DVDs out there. And you can check out a few other dog hunting sites,as well.
Also, please watch the heat. A dog who is birdy may not show sign of exhaution untill afterwards. Plenty of water on and in the dogs.
Francine
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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