Newton
Alberta - North of Edmonton
JH
Posts:35
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| 08/23/2007 12:02 PM |
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Hi, We have a 5 1/2 month old GSP girl and while she is doing great and getting better every day, we are concerned because she won't come back when she is chasing something. We live in the country and this morning she popped a young bull moose out of his bed when we were out for a walk. She chased him to our property line and then came back to my call. I would have been much happier if she had come back immediately! We were wondering if a shock collar might be an idea to get her attention. Any advice is welcome
Thanks, Newton |
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NDGSP
North Dakota
Posts:15
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| 08/23/2007 9:21 PM |
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That is the very reason we got an ecollar for Rudy. We have been through obedience class and in a controlled environment ( house, yard), Rudy did great. When we would go for runs in the country, he also did fine unless there was a rabbit or deer. I was very reluctant to get one, I had a lot of reservations and read almost everything posted on this board (pro and con) pertaining to ecollars. We did end up getting one and it has worked great. In the beginning, he wore it all day to get used to it. Now we only put it on him when he will be running off leash. And even though he is wearing it, we rarely have to use it because he knows its there, so 99% of the time he comes the first ime he is called. It did not take long for Rudy to understand the ecollar concept. He is not to a point where I trust him 100% off leash, but he is so much better than before we had the ecollar; it has made a huge difference. I have noticed his recall is even better in the yard (he doesn't wear the ecollar in the yard). When he is running along the fence with our nieghbor's dog, he comes as soon as I call, even though he doesn't want to give up play time. When used correctly, ecollars are a good training tool. |
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Newton
Alberta - North of Edmonton
JH
Posts:35
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| 08/24/2007 2:55 PM |
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Thanks, that makes me feel more confident that this is the way to go. So now I wonder what is the best to get? I was looking at the Cabela's catalog and they have all sorts of them! Yikes. 
Advice is always welcome
Thanks |
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MOOSE1
Fruitport, MI
MH
Posts:1789
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| 08/25/2007 7:25 AM |
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My vote is a tri-tronic collar. But we use ours for hunting reasons and such and so it is heavier duty for that. We started out with a Sport Dog and it did pretty good just didn't have the reliability that we wanted out of it.
Good thing it was just a baby moose! GEESH! That could have been bad if it were full grown! |
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Rajah-APBT- USUV UMJCH Flying High Rajah-TDI Certified
Phoenix-GSP- USJCH UWP GRCH BNJ Shooters Rising Phoenix-CGC Tested
Cody- GSP- AKC/CKC CH UKC UWP GRCH Legacyk n Estate Sunray Minor FDJ CGC Tested
Tucson-UJJ CH Legacyk FlwrCrk The Old Peublo
Rumor-UMJ URO1 GRCH BNJ Rumor Has It-RN RD CGC NA II
www.ezydog.com |
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Brooks
Posts:3
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| 08/25/2007 8:06 PM |
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| Tri Tronics is probably the best, I have been using one since the early 70's and have upgraded over the years. There are several websites that sell them at discount. If I remember correctly, usually around 10 percent off what you can find tham at Cabela's. There several different styles. You will have to decide which is best for you. I have used mine for training my dogs to stop to flush, force breaking to retreive, honoring another dogs point, chasing deer, rabbits etc. I e collar is probably the best way to go. |
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Ace1cappuccino
Carp Lake, Michigan
MH
Posts:1618
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| 08/25/2007 10:12 PM |
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I like the e-collars too. It has helped me alot with the dogs. Mine has a small tone button that is very helpful. If the dogs doesn't listen I just hit the tone button and he takes the warning and returns. I like the one I bought (sportdog 400s) it is great in the yard and field. I was very disappointed in the woods though. If you are in the brush the *#!!*&$## thing won't work. Even when the dog was withing 30 yards of me! The brochure didn't say that. The salesman at Jays told me it would be good for my grouse hunting. NOT. Even when fully charged. Just watch which one you buy and ask around. That way you can get the right one for the job! |
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Cornell's GSP'S- Mocha cappuccino, Lili Belle Lotte, Sir Leopold Vom Hunter 1, Lil Miss Lotte Doddi, Ace Hunter Twisted Mister(GSP'S)  
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remisalsadora
Posts:4
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| 08/26/2007 12:58 PM |
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| I was just reading inone of mytraining books that totrain a dog to come back toyou you get a 16 foot rope as a leash and call "come". when she gets to you, put two fingers in her collar and give a treat. Continue todo this over and over. Not only doing it when it is time to gohome cause they will not want to come. Do it several times while out and about. I know there is more to it, but so far our puppy responds very well to these little tricks. |
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Newton
Alberta - North of Edmonton
JH
Posts:35
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| 08/29/2007 10:50 AM |
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| I was just reading in one of mytraining books that totrain a dog to come back toyou you get a 16 foot rope as a leash and call "come". when she gets to you, put two fingers in her collar and give a treat.
We have done this (and are still doing it) and it works great, she comes most of the time, problems come when there is something more interesting than a treat!
She is really such a good girl but easily distracted and very headstrong. I am going to try Puppy Kindergarten this fall, I am just looking for one closer to home. We have a good trainer about an hour away, but Lady was getting car sick on long trips and I am thinking that's a long way to be puking.
Thanks for all the help
Newt |
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Ace1cappuccino
Carp Lake, Michigan
MH
Posts:1618
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Diamond
Southwestern Ontario
MH
Posts:349
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| 09/06/2007 7:22 PM |
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E-collar is your answer. So long as it is used properly it allows you and your dog to reach new heights in training! I would highly recommend getting a Tri-Tronics collar....I purchased the sport basic G3 version and have been very satisfied, it is very rugged, reliable, and one of the few collars where both the collar and transmitter are fully waterproof. I got mine from http://www.canadapets.com/ I found they had the best prices.
Even though Winston is gone now, I still don't regret my investment because having that e-collar allowed us to do things we couldn't otherwise do. It can also be past on from dog to dog (so long as it isn't abused to much :o) All the best with your pal.
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 09/06/2007 7:37 PM |
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Let me get this straight.
Everyone who posted is in favor of using an e-collar on a 5 month old puppy?
I may be mistaken but, this does not sound very good.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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prairiefire
Western Wisconsin
MH
Posts:409
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| 09/06/2007 8:58 PM |
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As a new-ish GSP puppy owner, I'm really interested in this discussion.
Pixie Bee, could you tell me at what age you would feel comfortable introducing an e-collar? Anyone else, please chime in as well!
From the reading I've done on this board and others, I've come to understand that it's a "graduate" level tool and wouldn't be appropriate if the dog/puppy wasn't really secure in a command. On average, and obviously with appropriate training, when would you begin to use one? |
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MOOSE1
Fruitport, MI
MH
Posts:1789
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| 09/07/2007 5:29 AM |
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With our male GSP who is now 1.5 yr old we started slowly using it on him at about 5-6 months of age. He knew sit, and come like none other so these were the only times he would have it used and on VERY low settings. We manly got him use to the buzzing noise means come just like mom wistling does.
Same with our female. She is a bit smaller and is a bit more stubborn so we just started using it on her slowly and lightly as well and she is now 9 months old. Still with just the come command and with the buzz for the initial stages so she realizes when she hears that buzz to come back and treat will be waiting.
If you don't want to actualy use it on the pup it wouldn't hurt to get the collar and just have them wear it all over the place. This way they get use to it. Also just train yourself not to use the stimulation button just the buzz or beep button along with your come commmand and soon enough all you have to use is the buzz/beep button and they will stop on a dime and come right back to you. This is in no way hindering your pup.
Just my thoughts... |
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Rajah-APBT- USUV UMJCH Flying High Rajah-TDI Certified
Phoenix-GSP- USJCH UWP GRCH BNJ Shooters Rising Phoenix-CGC Tested
Cody- GSP- AKC/CKC CH UKC UWP GRCH Legacyk n Estate Sunray Minor FDJ CGC Tested
Tucson-UJJ CH Legacyk FlwrCrk The Old Peublo
Rumor-UMJ URO1 GRCH BNJ Rumor Has It-RN RD CGC NA II
www.ezydog.com |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 09/07/2007 6:30 AM |
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I would like to start off by saying I am in favor of the e-collars as a tool.
I am however, not in favor of using it to teach basic commands.An e-collar is supposed to be used to re-inforce already known commands.A 5 month old puppy may understand come, sit, whatever but, at this age they are by no means to be held accountable.
If the e-collar is used correctly, then you only need to use it 2 tops 3 times and then sporatically over the years for a single command. If you find yourself using the collar over and over on the come command or sit or whatever, then that dog is not getting it.
The reason the puppy is blowing off the collar is b/c the stimualtion threshold is not greater than the dog's drive.
I believe in working on cooperation at this age.
Is the collar teaching cooperation? Maybe. That is for the individual to decide.
I would not start collar conditioning before 8 months old. And that is for the really bold, strong nerve dog.Otherwise I feel 11-12 months is adequate for just about any dog.The basics need to be near solid and the trainer and dog relationship ought to be where the dog understands that the trainer is the one in control,the pack leader.
If you are just pack leader in the house, you are not pack leader.The dog needs to understand that anywhere you go, you are the leader.
The best tools for preventing disobedience is to learn to read your dog, good timing in corrections,consistancy and patience.Don't put the dog in a position that you know the dog will be disobedient and you are unable to control the dog.A 30-50' check cord is a wonderful training tool.
These are some of my thoughts and to be taken with a grain of salt.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Newton
Alberta - North of Edmonton
JH
Posts:35
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| 09/15/2007 9:21 AM |
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Thanks for all the input. I have been really busy lately (fall on the farm)so haven't had time to do more than read and absorb. Thanks for your caution Francine, I am now using a 24foot check cord daily when we walk and her obedience in coming when off the cord has really improved. I also notice that it is a stair step kind of learning process...we work with a comand such as sit (just an example) and she does it and does it and then she stops and has to be reinforced again with treats and praise and then she does it all the time again. This is over a period of days. So I always have a baggy of kibble in my pocket for those time when she needs more than just a "good girl!".
I am going to get a longer check cord as well so she can start really stepping out and working on her long range obedience. I take what you say about her youth very seriously. She looks full grown now but her head is still a puppy and that is what is important. I am going to still buy an e-collar but it may be a few months before we use it.
This morning on our run she was a really good girl, especially since she was kenneled most of yesterday and had lots of energy. Then I let her run free for the last while and she poof dissapeared and didn't come back for a good 5 minutes. (argh) she did eventually come back before I found what had caught her interest but it was a hair raising 5 minutes. This was very early in the morning and makes me nervous as there are still lots of critters wandering about at that time. I am very coyote/porcupine shy for her right now as both have been around lately.
Anyway, Thank you for all the help and any other advice is greatly appreciated.
Newton |
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primetime6
Posts:1
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| 09/18/2007 9:39 AM |
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Posted By NDGSP on 08/23/2007 9:21 PM
That is the very reason we got an ecollar for Rudy. We have been through obedience class and in a controlled environment ( house, yard), Rudy did great. When we would go for runs in the country, he also did fine unless there was a rabbit or deer. I was very reluctant to get one, I had a lot of reservations and read almost everything posted on this board (pro and con) pertaining to ecollars. We did end up getting one and it has worked great. In the beginning, he wore it all day to get used to it. Now we only put it on him when he will be running off leash. And even though he is wearing it, we rarely have to use it because he knows its there, so 99% of the time he comes the first ime he is called. It did not take long for Rudy to understand the ecollar concept. He is not to a point where I trust him 100% off leash, but he is so much better than before we had the ecollar; it has made a huge difference. I have noticed his recall is even better in the yard (he doesn't wear the ecollar in the yard). When he is running along the fence with our nieghbor's dog, he comes as soon as I call, even though he doesn't want to give up play time. When used correctly, ecollars are a good training tool.
Hello, I am new here and have a 1 year GSP that I am about to start working in the field with. I am going to be getting an ecollar for him but I need to know some training techniques. Anyone have any reqcomencations for me? When intorducing it to him should I just put it on him in the back yard and not turn it one....I am just looking for simple suggestions |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 09/18/2007 10:32 AM |
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When in areas that I know fur or something will catch the attention of a puppy I never let go of the leash. There is just no way the dog is going to think you are more important.Everytime the dog goes away and is blowing you off, you have taught the dog that this is acceptable. Even if you're angry. The puppy/dog sees it as you let them do it.Otherwise you would have given a correction. Now, preventing a dog from doing something is not a correction. Prevention rarely teaches anything.
With any command that is known, don't say it more than once.Give the command, if the dog blows you off in the 1st second afterwards, give a correction and have the dog sit.This is not about getting angry or short tempered.Teach your dog that you are not an irrational handler.
Dobbs has a very nice site for teaching the e-collar.
Your dog sounds cooperative and I would try to teach w/o the collar.Basic obedience should be fun and a bonding experience for both dog and owner. This is where you show your dog he follows you and not the other way around.
You'll make progress everyday so keep us informed.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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