texasfan
Amarillo, Tx
Posts:10
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| 03/25/2008 12:33 PM |
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Hello to all,
I am prepping myself to begin the force fetch process on my pup Jaxson. I've watched mark payton's "reliable retrieving" about 10 times and am feeling pretty good about the process. I know it will be challenging, but I figure we've been through everything up to now together, so why ship my pup off now. Anyway...I'm wondering if any of you guys have tips on equipment. I'm trying to figure out a way to use a table without having to build a huge contraption in my back yard. So any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Also...I'm wondering where I can get a toe hitch with a velcro band. If any of you guys have any thoughts or tips on this whole process (i.e. things to emphasize, things to avoid) I would be eternally grateful. Thanks again!
patrick |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 03/25/2008 1:20 PM |
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Is there any pro nearby that you can consult?
This can be a difficult process for a newcomer to training.
That said, I think you will probably do just fine.
Be consistent,2 sessions a day is better then one and teach hold in many areas with many levels of difficulty before moving on,including walking and jumping while holding. Don't let the dog quit after a few repititions and remember, it isn't force unless you force. In other words, if the dog likes it to much you are probably not doing it correctly.
From previous posts I assume you have hunted over Jaxson this season.Does he have any hint of a natural retrieve?
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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texasfan
Amarillo, Tx
Posts:10
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| 03/25/2008 2:08 PM |
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You know... he retrieved fairly well right when I began shooting birds over him and at some points he has retrieved tennis balls and bumpers well. But 99% of the time he goes and picks the bird up chomps down on it a few times (he's eaten a few birds as well) and then drops it. I've tried not to wear him out when working him, but he just has never seemed to enjoy retrieving...he's always more worried about finding more birds. |
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:431
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| 03/25/2008 5:33 PM |
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I have used a picnic table but most of my stuff was done either right on the ground or on a kennel. I tried not to stay on the table too long and preferd the ground. I got the same results just didnt need as much transition from the table to the ground.
One thing I found useful was the have a buck with the handle on the end. Makes it easy to off balance the bucks and take the buck from the dog. I have had my fingers pinch by my over exited dog. |
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texasfan
Amarillo, Tx
Posts:10
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| 03/26/2008 7:03 AM |
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That makes a lot of sense, ryan. Did you make your buck as well or did you buy it somewhere? I guess my only hang up on doing the whole thing on the ground is seeing the advantage of having a cable that keeps the dog where you want him, while giving him the ability to move back and forth when needed. Does that make sense? And also...how did you keep him in one place on the picnic table? If I know my dog, he will be trying with all his might to keep away from me. Just lots of questions I guess. As always, thanks for all of the great help.
p.s. my little puppy, maggie, is the best natural retriever I have ever seen. Retrieved a pheasant that was twice her size already. So...I'm hoping to only do this once. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 03/26/2008 7:17 AM |
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Does Jaxson know sit,whoa and heel? If he does you can use that when teaching hold.Then use heel when he is ready to walk while holding. Some dogs don't like to hold and it can be a fight in the begining. What ever you do, do not let him spit out he object.If he does you must put it back in immediately. Keep your thumb by his mouth with your hand on the collar to pop back in anything he spits out or drops. Dogs that don't like to hold will usually drop while in motion. I do not use a table. I do not like the time for the transition to the floor. If you think you may need the control the table offers then use it but don't rely on what is learned there to be perfect on the ground.
You may have an easier time of it then you think. Would you call him cooperative,sensitive ( I don't mean soft)dog or a hard headed,stubborn fool? Making this distinction now will help you decide how tough of a time it will be.
Isn't it great when you have a natural retriever? It's liek wallking onthe sunny side of the street.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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singltrak
Las Cruces, NM
MH
Posts:1149
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| 03/26/2008 9:30 AM |
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While we're on the subject of force fetch training, I'd like to call your attention to a new training (tried and true also) that is being published in a new book by Carol Chadwick of Northwood Mountain Kennels, breeder, owner, handler of many, many Duals and Master Hunters. Anyone who might be interested in this can check out the information at Carol's website at www.NMK1GSP.com under New Training Book. (also a link from my website www.singltrakshorthairs.com to Carol's website) I've been using some of these techiques with my 5 month old boy and he's happily retrieving to hand. Not selling books but definitely worth a looksee.
Cheers,
Phyllis and the furgang
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Look to the Past, Breed for the Future |
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prairiefire
Western Wisconsin
MH
Posts:409
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| 03/26/2008 12:09 PM |
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Phyllis,
Our puppy is now 13 months old. Can you tell me if I've missed some sort of window--or could I start with these techniques now? Unless it's really necessary, I'd prefer not to force fetch our dog.
Thanks!
Sarah |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 03/26/2008 1:37 PM |
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I think most dogs would do just fine with only lessons in "hold".
The word "force" I find to be misleading b/c it does not define an amount. In the case of FF it could merely be opening a dog's mouth and placing and object inside "forcing" them to hold the object. It certainly is not painful.
Some dogs,tho, willing pick up an object on their own but refuse to have it placed there to hold as a command or will drop when they want to or will chop or destroy game.These are goods reason for FF,especially when you require all game be brought to the bag. FF is simply a means to get a dog to retrieve all game ,under any situation, no refusals. If this is not a requirement for someone then teaching "hold" may be the way to go.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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prairiefire
Western Wisconsin
MH
Posts:409
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| 03/26/2008 3:04 PM |
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I can certainly see the need/benefit for force fetch in some situations, but I know I don't have the experience to be able to take our puppy through that process myself. If we need to go that route, we'll send him to our trainer. BUT--if I could accomplish a reliable retrieve myself and save the training fees, that would be swell! Our puppy will be my husband's personal hunting dog, so a picture perfect retrieve would be nice, but not necessary. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 03/27/2008 6:03 AM |
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http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/pointing/index.html
This is a good site. It is based on the use of an e-collar (can't imagine why )
but a little ingenuity and that can be worked around.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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prairiefire
Western Wisconsin
MH
Posts:409
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| 03/28/2008 6:35 AM |
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I don't have an issue with FFing or the e-collar. I just know that I'm not capable of introducing our dog to either one myself. I'm too new to birddogs. Our trainer is introducing Otto to the e-collar while in Texas and will walk us through the use of it when they get back.
Thanks for posting the site. I look forward to reading about it. |
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