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Subject: Chase Aggression - Rescue Situation
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krtennysonUser is Offline
Northern Virginia
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Posts:69


03/19/2009 7:33 AM  

 We are temporarily taking on a two year old male GSP (neutered) who has shown some aggression to joggers in his past.  The past two incidents involved a bite that punctured the skin.  The owners can no longer keep him and he would have been destroyed if they could not find a home.  In all three cases the individual attacked was a jogger in dark clothing, once on the beach  and twice near home.  The owners made serious attempts to keep him leashed in public spaces and any time he was outside of the yard, but he managed to dash out the front door for the most recent event (any GSP owner will understand that keeping GSPs under control 100% of the time is pretty much impossible, so not looking for any naive suggestions along this line).

We do not want to keep the dog long term and are hoping to find a hunting home for him where he would be giving a positive outlet for his hunt drive as well as kept away from joggers.  Does this seem reasonable?  Are there any suggestions for how to train out this behavior?  Since it has been triggered by a specific situation, I am thinking that we could recreate the stimulus and apply some level of correction if he responds aggressively.  Something I will talk about with a animal behavior expert before  undertaking of course.

Happy to entertain any reasonable suggestions, preachy or overly opinionated responses will be ignored.


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DesertRoseKennelUser is Offline

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03/19/2009 8:14 AM  

You have an e-collar, correct? My first thought is to set up a similar situation (with a volunteer willing to take a risk) and hit him hard with the collar. I'm sure there are folks that will disagree and I'll be the first to tell you that I don't know a thing about dogs with aggression issues. Only an idea - but desperate times call for desperate measures.


"Our dogs are bred to be champion hunters who sleep on the bed"
www.desertrosekennel.com
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
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Posts:7851


03/19/2009 8:28 AM  

So there are two triggers that you described in your post:  running person and dark clothes.  How does he behave with a stranger just standing in dark clothes?  How does he respond to someone running in light clothes?  I am trying to clarify if it is the combination that is the trigger or if it is two separate triggers, or only one trigger. You need to isolate the trigger first.  Once you isolate the trigger, then you can work toward correcting the problem.  I would definitely use a behaviorist for this one.

The ecollar approach may actually work in reverse in this scenario as it may confirm for the dog that the running person in dark clothes is dangerous/scary and now it hurts too.

 


Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
krtennysonUser is Offline
Northern Virginia
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Posts:69


03/19/2009 8:46 AM  
I believe it is the combination of the two triggers according to the two owners, it always involves a running person and they have always had dark clothing. The dog comes tomorrow morning, we will be finding some "volunteers" to carefully test the triggers (will try on a check cord and see if he responds).

Anyone know of a good animal behavioralist in the Northern VA area?

Opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has one.

Genuine dialogue benefits everyone, getting on your soapbox is a waste of everyone's time.
SomerUser is Offline
Houston, TX
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Posts:280


03/19/2009 11:05 AM  
http://www.iaabc.org/suchen/

Has quite a few in VA

carlower1User is Offline
Kansas
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Posts:1253


03/19/2009 2:21 PM  
There are great arguments for and against e-collars, and I can understand the crash and dash scenario... I have had it happen several times, luckily my dog thinks that he is a cute Shih-tzu and LOVES everybody, especially the little kids. My main concern with this is that you have a dog that you KNOW has bitten someone, this could cause liability issues. I would definitely get a behaviorist involved as well as maybe work on some desensitivity training.. (i.e. LOTS of people in dark clothes around the dog on a regular basis).

There was a posting here some time ago about working with a dog who had issues with bikes... where they worked with the dog on a reliable sit/stay then had the bikes sitting in a circle around the dog while praising for staying calm... THEN they had kids ride in circles around the dog while keeping the dog in a sit and down. Try doing something similar with this dog. The main thing is that while you are working on this.. if the dog charges your runner.. your runner needs to turn around and confront the dog and not continue to run away. Perhaps you need to start with the runner being someone the dog knows and trusts, so that when they do reprimand the dog, it has significant meaning. After that has worked then progress along to someone the dog has been acquainted with, then slowly work to strangers.

Also, you might want to find a runner who can run WITH this dog if the dog is good on a leash.

OK this keeps getting longer and longer... I will stop with my 2 cents now

Carrie
SomerUser is Offline
Houston, TX
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Posts:280


03/19/2009 2:37 PM  

Desensitization & Counter Conditioning in dogs. Here are some links. You can use google to try to find some other articles re: desensitization and c/c.

http://www.clickertrainusa.com/dcc.htm

http://www.bcrescuetexas.org/Training/ATM_Desensitization.pdf - although this one is for dogs that are fearful of the vet it is the same idea.

Having a runner turn around and confront the dog is probably not a good idea. Not unless that person wants to get bitten. No reprimands either.. the dog already hates runners he doesn't need another reason to hate them even more.

And if you can't fix the dog.. the nicest thing you can do for him (and the people he is determined to bite) is to euthanize him. No person deserves to be bitten by a dog.. especially not one with a history of biting.


carlower1User is Offline
Kansas
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03/20/2009 7:14 AM  
Those are some great links Somer!

I am not saying that the runner needs to become aggressive with the dog, but he/she does need to stop running turn around and make eye contact and stand his/her ground and let the dog know that barking/chasing/aggression is not acceptable... When we do dog awareness training with small kids, we always reinforce that if a dog starts chasing you.. STOP RUNNING!!! In this case we usually have a demonstration with one of the larger dogs that knows how to, and loves to play chase, we work along with one of the other therapists... Now in this case the dog is trained and conditioned to playing tag with humans, but it still serves as a good example for the kids. The point of all this, the only thing that running away does is trigger the predator/prey instinct in an already aggressive dog. With our demonstrations we are using with therapy dogs that have been trained, but it gives the kids a bit of practice. Although, if you are doing this training, it is better if this is first done by someone the dog knows and trusts. Then as the dog allows the runner to go past without barking then positive reinforcement, lots of hugs and praise will help reinforce the proper behavior.

Ultimately I have seen this training work with dogs.. but I have also seen it fail miserably. No one training method works for every dog and there are those dogs that have the taste of blood and are beyond any rehabilitation. No matter the amount training those dogs can't be saved.

Carrie
krtennysonUser is Offline
Northern Virginia
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Posts:69


03/20/2009 7:22 AM  

 Somer, thanks for the link to the IAABC, I have contacted a local behavioralist listed on their site.  Thanks!


Opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has one.

Genuine dialogue benefits everyone, getting on your soapbox is a waste of everyone's time.
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Forums > General > Rescue > Chase Aggression - Rescue Situation



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