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tgatto
Lake in the Hills, IL
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Posts:179
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| 01/30/2012 8:46 AM |
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Ok, so I have been searching the site for answers to my questions, but have not found any here (actually, this area of the forum seems to be more a brag-board...). In any case, I think it is the right place to post this topic...
Start-off by saying that I have only toyed with the ideas of FT/competition, and I am TOTALLY satisfied with Sadie's progress as a field companion. With Sadie, we never planned on breeding (had her fixed), and as a companion dog, we have her pedigree papers, but have not filed them (maybe an oops...). That being said:
If I were to pursue certification/competition, what are the pro's/cons? What is available out there? Why would I pursue one over another? Is there a cost-point/value to one over the other?
One of the advantages I can see is being able to work Sadie on birds during the off-season - along with comparing/improving her against a standard, but in looking at the various organizations doing field trials/competitions, it would be an understatement to say that I am confused  . I have downloaded rule-books on AKC, NATHA, NAVHDA, NSTRA, AFTCA, NBDC... What am I missing here?
I am really just interested in your personal experiences/preferences and why... Also any guidance as to what to look for would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance to anyone who would participate in this thread! |
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It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when you pick-up a bird that they pointed. - Todd |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4123
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| 01/30/2012 9:04 AM |
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I like NAVHDA the best b/c it is for the foot hunting versatile dog - field,water,obedience - more the way I hunt. I oike the challanges it presents.
NAVHDA NA tests are age limited - 16 or 18 months.
UPT and UT do not have an age limit.
AKC HTs are good for the foot hunter who is (mostly) an upland hunter - field,obedience. AKC HTs have no age limits.
The only real benefit to participating in any dog event is that hopfully it will produce a better bird dog and owner. I prefer formats that score against a standard. My dog did the required tasks or didin't.
Best thing about the USA - you are free to dabble in all the venues.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:6941
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| 01/30/2012 9:32 AM |
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| I agree with pixie on both NAVDHA and HT. I do the HT as there are more around my area, but have been to NAVDHA training days and they are excellent too. Also, and this is important for me, they are scored against a standard, so no one is really competing with each other. I get enough of the politics and competition with conformation, so I enjoy the camaraderie and fun at the AKC HT. FTs can get very competitive and your dog will be judged against the other dogs running that day. I am not saying it isn't fun, but it is allot more competitive. You also have allot more pros competing in FT, but they do have the Amateur Handler category you can enter which is good. This is just my personal opinion, and personal preference, and since my main goal is the have fun with my dog I prefer the HT. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
     
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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knightfarms
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
MH
Posts:81
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| 01/30/2012 2:30 PM |
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I compete in field trials because that's what my dog was bred to do. I'm new to the game and my breeder does horseback trials, and my mentor does walking, horseback trials and the hunt tests. Each field trial run costs about $40
I am running the NAVHDA natural ability test in May and I think it's $150 
And in July, we'll be showing in the ring in an AKC specialty show close to home. $20/class give or take a bunch
And once my dog has slowed down just a bit, then I'll run hunt tests with him. Those are $40/leg/test
The only reason I see for you to compete Sadie is to have fun with it, and surround yourself by other gun dog enthusiasts. You would need to send in the papers that came with her, likely AKC. Then also register her under NAVHDA for a small fee. However, you can attend most training days for free or the cost of birds that you want before committing to any one thing. You can dable in it all if you'd like, especially if you're not out to prove something in order to breed your girl. |
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. -Unknown |
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tgatto
Lake in the Hills, IL
MH
Posts:179
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| 01/30/2012 3:10 PM |
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Posted By knightfarms on 01/30/2012 2:30 PM
...
The only reason I see for you to compete Sadie is to have fun with it, and surround yourself by other gun dog enthusiasts. You would need to send in the papers that came with her, likely AKC. Then also register her under NAVHDA for a small fee. However, you can attend most training days for free or the cost of birds that you want before committing to any one thing. You can dable in it all if you'd like, especially if you're not out to prove something in order to breed your girl.
I guess that is the hook/catch and why I am looking. Breeding is obviously out (She's fixed). Primarily she was to be a family dog, and hunting companion. But again, if I am going to dable in it, why not go all the way - then again, why go through all the registration as well (or why not...)? Guess that is what I am tossing around in my head...
She is good... Probably real good. I am just wondering what is the best way to find out how good she really is, how to make her even better, and how to keep her on birds during the off-season (while still having fun...). |
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It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when you pick-up a bird that they pointed. - Todd |
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tgatto
Lake in the Hills, IL
MH
Posts:179
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| 01/30/2012 3:15 PM |
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| Knighfarms - I see you run AKC HT (Walking) as well as NAVHDA? Any differences, or are they pretty much the same thing? |
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It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when you pick-up a bird that they pointed. - Todd |
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knightfarms
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
MH
Posts:81
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| 02/09/2012 9:35 AM |
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Sorry, I just saw this as I wasn't subscribed to the thread.
I'm fairly new to the whole pointing dog competition game, just want to throw that out.
I have had fun with the AKC field trials, and I think that if you like competing and being around other dog enthusiasts, then go for it. And if you find you like it, then go for the Field championship or Amateur Field championship, or both. If you enjoy it, then there's no reason not to try to earn the titles with Sadie.
I am just learning about NAVHDA, but one of the biggest differences is the inclusion of water work, whereas AKC pointing dogs don't have water in competitions. The NAVHDA tests are done against a standard, to my understanding, rather than a competition against the other dogs that show up.
The other thing is, there are more field trials around me in the spring and fall than NAVHDA tests, and you can compete a dog in more ft in a season than navhda. But the NAVHDA folks seems to get together for formal training days more than the hunt/ breed clubs that I'm familiar with... I would say try to go to one of each and see which you prefer. Or send in her paperwork and enter a FT and see what happens. |
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. -Unknown |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:6941
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| 02/09/2012 12:07 PM |
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| The AKC HTs are more like NAVDHA as the dogs are judged against a standard. There are two types of HTs that shorthairs can compete in, the Pointing and Retrieving. The shorthairs were just added to the Retrieving HTs this year and I believe there is a water portion. In the FTs the dogs compete against each other. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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tgatto
Lake in the Hills, IL
MH
Posts:179
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| 02/10/2012 9:00 AM |
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| I think I read somewhere that the German Shorthaired Pointer, when originally applied for AKC recognition was submitted as the German Shorthaired Pointer-Retriever, and AKC wanted the application to state one or the other, not both. I may be wrong here (internet is full of all sorts of mis-information...). In any case, I know GSPs are used as great duck dogs (although Sadie really doesn't like cold water) - and I know (at least related) DKs are bred for retrieving as well (being bred to enhance working aspects of the breed), so I imagine the GSP would do well in either hunting, or retrieving FT. |
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It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when you pick-up a bird that they pointed. - Todd |
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tgatto
Lake in the Hills, IL
MH
Posts:179
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| 02/10/2012 10:17 AM |
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| Knightfarms: Totally ok about the delay in response! I think I am learning the same thing as you staed. My local NAVHDA is meeting on February 19th. Not sure I am going to be able to make that, but maybe some of the training days - they do have a lot of them. The NAVHDA person I e-mailed described NSTRA as "simulating hunting the way NASCAR simulates Driver's Ed". So, a fun game for the dog, but not necessarily related to what we will do in the field during season. Maybe, perhaps, like DockDogs compares to Retriever tests as well (fun game, but not related). |
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It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when you pick-up a bird that they pointed. - Todd |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4123
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| 02/10/2012 11:36 AM |
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Someone may have to chime in if I'm wrong -
NAVHDA has a track in NA and a drag in UT.
From what I undersatnd about FTing it's that the nose down/tracking is not desirable. I understand that Fters want air scenting, not ground scenting.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4123
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| 02/10/2012 11:44 AM |
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so I imagine the GSP would do well in either hunting, or retrieving FT.
Much of it comes down to the breeding,then the ability of the trainer.
What is not bred for can not be assumed to be in a dog.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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knightfarms
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
MH
Posts:81
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| 02/10/2012 12:02 PM |
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In my limited experience, it seems that the pointers run around like bandits until they catch a scent, and then slow down and drop their heads until going on point. They don't seem to track like hounds, but once they know it's hunting time, then they put their noses down and get to work. |
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. -Unknown |
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tgatto
Lake in the Hills, IL
MH
Posts:179
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| 02/11/2012 10:14 AM |
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I don't know too much about that, but with a year under he belt of warm weather, and the resultant running birds, Sadie has developed quite the knack of tracking birds. Weather desireable or not in FT, I value it. I think GSPs are smart enough to learn what to do with their incredible noses. I had read that hound was bred into the GSP as well. I thought that was why Sadie vocalizes when she is on a bird... maybe I am wrong.
Anyways, back to the original topic - what organization best represents upland hunting? I am not too much into ducks, but Sadie loves water, so I don't think it would be an issue to combine retrieving and water-work. |
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It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when you pick-up a bird that they pointed. - Todd |
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dnauer
Colorado Springs, CO
MH
Posts:168
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| 02/15/2012 12:07 PM |
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| One note -- decades ago the AKC GSP Field Trial requirement included a water requirement before a Field Championship could be earned -- that was dropped at some time in the past, now quite a while ago. The GSPCA later developed a water test certification that is now a GSPCA sponsored certificaiton -- it includes the NRD, RD, and RDX designations -- at my recommendation the GSPCA is now pursuing getting the water certification included in the AKC program where these "Parent Club" certifications can be included in the official AKC pedigree . . . |
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Dave in Colorado
Voyager GSPs
"If there are no dogs in heaven, when I die, I want to go where they went" -- Will Rogers |
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