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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 10/14/2009 10:09 AM |
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I am probably putting more thought in this than I should/need to, but out of curiosity, how many birds are usually planted in a JH field? I have read at least two (one per dog). That few, really? What if the other dog finds both first? I guess I'd just mark where they land (hopefully in the same field) and proceed that way? |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7834
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| 10/14/2009 11:49 AM |
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Usually two is right although for the early braces they may plant more. Remember that the birds that were planted for the early braces will still be out there and are fair game too. So, depending on your running order there could be over 10 or so birds out there to find. Also MH and SH go before JH, so if they use the same course their birds may be out in there too. The key is to get the dogs finding the birds not the other way around, especially in JH. Allot of times a good bird planter will plant a bird early in the course so the dogs can get an early find. The problem I have with that is my boy is so excited it is hard to get him to slow down and hunt at the beginning of the course. Another good thing to watch for is the ATV tracks if the bird planters are using ATVs which they often do. Follow those tracks as the birds are usually planted not too far from the tracks. Remember too the birds can run, so the later in the day the more likelihood of dogs having false finds (where birds once were and sometimes feathers still remain). Don't worry about it though, the judges and everyone really want the JH dogs to succeed. I have even seen judges ask a handler and dog that has already qualified to leave the field to give the other dog a chance. I have also seen judges suggest strongly to someone to take their dog to a certain area of the course. Again the objective is for the dog and handler to have fun and find birds.
Depending on where you are in the order, walk in the gallery in a few of the early braces so you can see 1) how things work, and 2) where the dogs are finding birds. It will help you and Tessa allot if you do that.
Also, conditions can influence the bird finding ability in inexperienced dogs so if there is a high wind or it is hot, there won't be as many finds. Also, heavy rain can create a problems with birds not flying resulting in more caught birds. Of course, some of the dogs, like my boy, figure out how to catch the birds even when they fly. LOL.
I am running with Ringo going after that last leg this weekend. I have no clue as to whether he will point of just try to catch. He is about half and half now in his training, but figured it was worth the shot.
Anyway, the most important thing to remember is have FUN!!! |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 10/14/2009 12:12 PM |
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Oh so many variables! That's why I need to stop thinking about it and just go. It's just a trial run for both of us anyway to see how things work. Instead of watching, why not run.
Tessa's problem is the same as Ringo's, her nose overruns the birds earlier in the course. It sometimes takes her about 10-15 minutes to settle in at which point time's up.
Hey, Bev, good luck with Ringo! Too funny they are both testing. We are starting and you are wrapping up.
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7834
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| 10/14/2009 4:38 PM |
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| LOL, I hope we are wrapping up. In actual fact it may be a long weekend with my knot head boy if he goes back to his old ways. Oh well, we will have fun in any case. Hope the weather is nice both here and wherever you are testing. Good luck and have fun!! |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 10/14/2009 4:55 PM |
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The best way to cure the 2 of them is with a launcher.
I know the 2 of you will have fun so I'll wish you good luck instead.
From what I know from my MH tester friends - avoid the birds in the back course.
I personally don't agree with this mind set,but if you are dead set on a title this seems to be one way to go about it.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 10/14/2009 6:47 PM |
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From what I know from my MH tester friends - avoid the birds in the back course.
I personally don't agree with this mind set,but if you are dead set on a title this seems to be one way to go about it.
Can you elaborate? |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7834
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| 10/14/2009 8:01 PM |
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| I'm not sure I get that one either. The back of the course is usually where we do the best, but I may be misunderstanding the comment. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Patti
Scituate RI
MH
Posts:78
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| 10/15/2009 5:50 AM |
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That's why I need to stop thinking about it and just go.
From one novice to another, yes, you do. I handled Ringo myself in his last 2 legs of his JH and had an absolute blast. He was awesome. We developed a lot of confidence together. I can't wait to start on SH! |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 10/15/2009 6:44 AM |
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The back course are the fields that are not the bird field. There is no penalty for birds passed by in these fields. I personally don't like handling my dogs away from birds,for several reasons.
The reasons for this handling away is the less the dog has contact with nonconsequential birds the better. You can only hope your brace mate doesn't point in these fields and/or that your dog is in front of the other dog,and not having a visual of the dog on point.
Not all dogs are owner handled,many are pro trained and handled in AKC HTs. This means they must produce. Gives more of a competition feeling to the game. I have seen pros with 2-6 dogs for MH tests. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 10/15/2009 7:08 AM |
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Ah! I see.
Is there a penalty for birds passed in the bird field (for the JH)?
Are there points for birds pointed outside the assigned bird field? I guess there are, otherwise nobody would work the back course? For some reason I thought there are no points for points outside the bird field. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 10/15/2009 8:02 AM |
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As a person who tests purely as a way to prove my dogs I will give what I think should be :
I would think there should be a penalty for a dog that passes by a bird.This is a toughie, b/c the judges are on horses,they have no idea where they birds are and they would be clueless as to which birds are passed by.
I would think that all points are judged,better for the dog that points outside the field - good nose.
I would think that outside the bird field also means within sight. To expect a dog to work within an invisible fence is unfair, to expect a dog to work closer to it's handler and in sight is only expecting cooperation and team work,essential for all the AKC HTs.
Of course, this is how I see it and may have nothing to do with the AKC HT rules.
One more 'how I see it' - I would think that in JH no birds would be planted outside the bird field. This will give the young,inexperienced dogs a chance to burn off energy,get in the mood and ready for the bird field.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 10/15/2009 8:30 AM |
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I would think that in JH no birds would be planted outside the bird field. This will give the young,inexperienced dogs a chance to burn off energy,get in the mood and ready for the bird field.
Yeah but what if some birds migrated to the outside of the bird field from previous braces. From what I understand, birds found on the way to and from the bird field may count at the judge's discretion. I think that's why they call the bird field exit the path of prayers 
I agree, a bird found is a bird found, because in a real hunt, who cares in which perimeter the dog finds them? |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 10/15/2009 8:32 AM |
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| Oh and I just got my running order - brace no. 3 (JH). There are 7 SH and MH braces before us. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 10/15/2009 8:57 AM |
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Are they running in the same field? There will be lots of birds out there. I think you should not care where your dog points a bird. I would think that the biggest worry,for anyone, is a dog that blinks or flushes to often. Birds that move are birds not planted - meaning they are probably visible to the dog and under presure may move causing the dog to brak point. Keep an eye on tessa,call points as fast as you can,and LOUD,wave a hat or hand high and have the capgun ready. She only needs to pont for about 5 seconds. Be preapred for another dog to flush tessa's bird - so HAVE the capgun ready to fire for that as well. Any bird that flushes for your dog's point must have a gun fired,no matter the reason.
HTs are a game with many loop-holes. The more you play the more savy player you will become.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 10/15/2009 9:20 AM |
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Are they running in the same field? I believe that they are. She only needs to pont for about 5 seconds Actually, she has to point until I am in gun range. Depending on how far out she points, that may be more than 5 seconds. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 10/15/2009 9:40 AM |
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Not a problem. Tell the judge you shoot a #2 that will give you about 330 yards.Just kidding,but a 7 1/2 and 8 will give you about 200 yards,these are the most popular loads for birds.So, you really don't have to be all THAT close.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7834
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| 10/15/2009 10:41 AM |
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Regardless of where you are, if your dog points, call the point, and then bird flushes for whatever reason, cap your gun. Trust your dog, if she points there is likely a bird. Ringo pointed into a cedar break and even the judge said no way he could scent a bird in the cedar, but he did. Thankfully I had called the point anyway, and looked. The bird flushed on its own and I capped the gun. The bird was a runner and they run to the cedar in TX. Ringo knew that too from training, so to this day he still hunts the cedars. The judge was right though as most dogs do not scent birds in cedars because they have such a loud smell. Still, trust your dog.
You never know what a judge will give you credit for. Where we run we do not have a bird field per se. The course follows a road and birds are typically planted to either side of the road. If a JH dog finds a bird and points, bird flushes and you cap your gun, then you get credit. I would recommend you walk the first brace, then get your dog out and if it is warm outside wet her down good, then get ready to run. Let her blow off steam in the early part of the course if she wants. You have twenty minutes which is more time than you think. She will get down to hunting soon enough. If she follows the other dog for a while don't worry too much about that either. She will soon bore of that one too. If she finds a bird and even hesitates, call point and whether you flush the bird or it flushes on its own, cap your gun. You may be surprised at what your get credit for. The dog has to point half the birds it finds, so you can pass with just one find. Never give up until the judge calls time. Ringo found the only bird of the afternoon braces in his second leg in the last couple of minutes of the brace. We qualified on that one bird.
One other thing is water. We do not have natural water on our course, but the club puts out tubs all along the course. Ringo watches for water as he works very hard. Let your dog drink or even go in the water and cool off if she wants too. Even if the temps are cold to you, your dog will get hot. Ringo often goes up to the barrels, climbs in and lays down and then drinks. He doesn't stay very long, just enough to cool off and get a drink. The call of the hunt is much stronger, but he knows his limits. He is a big runner and covers a ton of ground hunting, so he earns his short breaks.
Can't wait to hear about your first hunt test. It is a fun game and Ringo and I always have a blast whether we qualify or not. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7834
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| 10/15/2009 10:48 AM |
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| In the HT that I have participated in all dogs were handled by their owners. We don't see the pros so much in HT, but more so in Field Trials. That said some of the folks that do HT have been doing it a very long time and are very good. I have also found that the folks I have met at the HT are very helpful and are willing to answer questions and give advice freely. I also usually hang around after the HT if it is not to late and do some more training and take advantage of all the birds that have been planted that day. There is a rule about time after the HT and using the site. Can't remember exactly what it is, but the folks running the HT can let you know if you can use the sight after the test for training too. That is when you can put your check cord on and work on holding the point. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 10/15/2009 11:08 AM |
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Oh, one other thing TB reminded of. You are allowed to call your dog over for water. this can serve 2 purposes. 1) wet her nose,she will scent better, 2) you can give her a calm down timeout w/o letting the judges realise it,but give the water to make it look as tho you are cooling the dog down. Then you can redirect her to where you want her to go, slow her down,refocus, that sort of thing.
Oh and one other thing I am reminded of - if you even think she is going to run off or out of bounds or whatever,give a whistle BEFORE she has time to commit to it.
Haiko is a big runner and has a set of wheels and before he would leave a field he would go out about 100 yards or so,scent the field and then check in all the way to me and then GO to objectives,which usually are very far away. I picked up on this sign after the second or maybe 3rd time. He has out grown this now but it was stressful at a test - just one more thing to worry about.
If you have a natural born objective seeker it is important to know and understand how they hunt. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7834
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| 10/15/2009 2:26 PM |
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Just got our running order for the weekend.
Saturday: 1 MH braces, 3 SH Braces, then 5 JH braces
We are in the second brace, so we will go sometime just before lunch.
Sunday: 2 MH braces, 3 SH braces, then 7 JH braces
We are in the 5th brace, which means we will probably run after lunch.
Fairly low entry, but I am betting it is because Texas and OU play this weekend. Should have nice weather, cool and sunny for both the football game and the HT. I am taking my portable XM radio so I can listen to the game too. I bleed Orange as a grad of the University of Texas, but can't miss this opportunity either. Just found out we have another HT the Halloween weekend that is being done by the Weim club. Depending on how Ringo does this weekend I may enter that one too. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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