Knowing that the soon to be approved Garmin only has 48 codes, I was looking in the manual to see what happens when the inevitable conflicts arise at trials.

The manual says that if you turn on the reciever and it detects more than one collar it will pop up a message about the conflict, and then give step by step instructions on how to change codes.

It sounds so easy that a caveman could do it.

It doen't say what will happen if the dog is already gone (wearing the collar) when the conflict occurs.

Perhaps someone here has done it and can educate me/us.

Does the unit simply not show any collar location?

Does it swap around to the different collar loacations?

Does it pick the strongest radio signal?

I will be out this weekend and intend to do some experimenting on this.

But it does seem to me that this could be a serious achilles heel to the Garmin's use at field trials.

I bet at most trials that there are at least a half dozen tracking collars transmitting at once. a couple of dogs running and a couple of handlers getting ready to go, and a few collars that simply didn't get turned off, because the handler forgot, or is running again soon so didn't bother.

As more people get Garmins,(and from what I'm hearing it will happen fast) the conflicts will happen with increasing frequency.

No big deal right? Simply follow the instructions and pick a new code, right?

What if after checking your collar, turning the reciever off and then giving it to the judge.... Another collar with the same code gets turned on somewhere on the grounds?

Maybe it's someone who doesn't understand how it works and the need to check for conflicts, or someone who who knows but forgot and is running a dog on another course.

At any rate it could be a big problem should  a dog with a conflicted collar get lost.

Of course this could happen with the telemetry units (trackers) as well.

But with 5000 frequencys it is unlikely. And in the event one does discover a conflict with another collar, then it can be dealt with, as the collars can not change frequencys.

I do not know how the other units that have recently come onto the market handle this, so it could be a problem for them as well.

At any rate, after this coming weekend I will report the results of my experiments.

This is what happened to me with my equipment. You should confirm with your equipment. (legal disclaimer)

 I was talking to a friend about this today, and he called Garmin to discuss the conflict issue.

Basically what it boils down to is that certain codes need to be assigned to each course, and nobody else with a collar can use those codes. He recommended that the organizers of the trial control the collars to prevent inadverdant conflicts.

ANYONE turning on a collar in range of a reciever could cause a conflict and cause a handler to not be able to find his lost dog.

He said that all involved should be very familiar with the units.

I still am going to experiment this weekend,,,,,but it's not looking good right now.

Well I learned some interesting things this weekend,

First, the Astro has 50 ID codes. I thought it was 48, but that was because as you add (marry) collars to your handheld reciever, it takes those numbers away. I have two collars, so it only went up to 48 for me.

I started off trying to get both of my collars on the same ID.

I turned on the handheld and Rusty's collar and set it to ID # 1. I then turned off Rusty's collar and turned on Talon's collar. I then scrolled thru the ID list and noticed something kinda strange. There were several missing numbers on the list. After a little experimenting I found that with Rusty's collar on ID #1 that numbers 11,21,31, and 41 disappeared from the list. and with Talon's collar on ID#2 that numbers 12,22,32,and 42 disappeared. This seems to indicate that the more collars married to a handheld the more IDs that will disapear, making less availible to resolve conflicts. Not a big problem since most people won't have more than 1 or 2 collars.

So after getting sidetracked with that I went back to the original objective. With Rusty's collar off I tried to put Talon's collar on ID# 1 as well. It couldn't be done as ID#1 was gone from the list. I then removed Rusty's collar from the handheld's dog list. Then I was able to put Talon's collar on ID # 1.

So now I have 2 collars on the same ID#s. Talon's (married to the handheld) is on and working perfectly. Rusty's(not married) is off.

I then turned off the handheld (as if to hand it to a judge) and then turned on Rusty's collar. (as if someone else on the grounds turned on a collar with the same ID#)  I then walked about 35 yards away but still had direct eye contact with the collars. I then turned on the handheld as if Talon was lost. A message appeared that said another collar was interfering with Talon's collar, and do I want to pick another ID#. I choose yes and a message appears that the handheld cannot communicate with Talon's collar. I walk towards the collars, while retrying. At about 15 yards I was able to change IDs and resolve the conflict.

With a little more experimenting I found another quirk.

If I was close to both collars when I turned on the handheld it was briefly (up to about 30 seconds) able to read Talon's collar accuratly before getting confused. This happened at ranges up to about 15 yards.

From this I surmise that it may be possible to be conflicted with another collar, even with your bracemate and not know it. If you just turn it on and it reads OK, then turn it off to hand to the judge... And your bracemate does likewise...

I only had one handheld so I couldn't confirm this for sure.

This is what happened to me with my equipment. You should confirm this with your equipment. (legal disclaimer)

I got together with a friend and his Garmin today to do a little more testing.
First I wanted to see if it really was possible to marry a collar to more than one handheld. It is, and it's very easy.

Next we put one of his collars on ID #2, and one of my collars on #2.

We then turned on both collars and both handhelds. My handheld sent out a conflict alert pretty fast. His handheld seemed to work fine for an amazingly long time.
probably 3-4 minutes. When it finally did send out a conflict alert we stumbled onto another problem.

When the Astro signals a conflict, it asks if you want to change the collar ID. The yes button is highlighted as the default answer. So you press yes, and the handheld tries to communicate with the collar. Unless you are very close it will fail. You then can retry as many times as you want. Eventually upon seeing that it wont work you will go on to the next screen. It will ask if you want to continue tracking your dog. WARNING!! The NO button is highlighted as the default option, pressing this button causes the handheld to lose all communication with the collar! The only way we found to fix it was to delete the dog from the dog list and remarry the collar and handheld. This requires that the handheld and collar touch each other. Impossible if the dog is lost.

Pressing NO when the handheld asks if you want to change IDs causes the handheld to continue tracking a collar. My hand held tracked my friends collar instead of mine a lot.
His handheld seemed to be better able to stay locked onto his collar. But it did eventually conflict as well.

The differences in our units could be any number of things. Where we had our collars, battery strength, individual performance variations between units etc.

Martin -  Were the two collars the same version/model number or different (I know they were both Garmin)?  I am thinking that the reason one seemed to work better than the other might be the firmware.  If so, is there a way to update firmware for the collars and receivers? This might be something to check on on the Garmin website.  They may also have solved some of the issues with firmware as well and depending on when you and your friend bought you collars you may benefit if you can update your firmware. Just a thought.

I have been following your experiments with great interest as I will probably be buying a tracking system at some point in the near future and I find what you are doing is very helpful in understanding how the units actually work. So, please keep posting your finding.

Thanks for all the experimentation.

 Just as a point of clarification.

Why fix what isn't broken?  The tracking collars out there today do a good job of finding your dog if you loose it.  They aren't perfect but they get the job done.  I've rarely seen a dog lost for more than an hour.  Normally a few minutes and the dog is on the hook and headed back to camp.  

Cheating won't be a problem in GD out west.  If the dog is out of pocket that long where the reciever could be used it probably isn't going to be looked at by the judges anyways.  Scouts rarely come into play and the handler is usually very close to the judge in most cases during a GD brace. 

AA is a different story.  Scouts are given more freedom to do what is needed to get the dog around.  There would be some opportunity for a scout to help their cause with the Garmin collar.  If someone really feels the need to cheat then let them.  This should be a game of integrity.  If someone needs to cheat they probably aren't long for the sport and are missing the true beauty of watching a FT dog work at his craft.  If someone wants to cheat they are already doing it.  I've heard stories about guys walking up to flush the birds and their second tracking unit was beeping super fast in their overalls. 

If AKC/AFTCA wants to use any tracking devise to help find dogs faster then why not?  Personally, my dogs will still have the Tracker tracking collar on for years to come.  I love the Garmin but for FT's there is no reason to change.  The tracker is just fine and you don't have to worry about having the Garmin and a top dog/botton dog collar too.  If you can only use 2 collars and one is the garmin and the other is the top dog/bottom dog collar then you have to take off their everyday collar for every brace.  Seems like quite a bit of work for every brace if you are running multiple dogs and can't get back to your string between braces.  

My vote (which means nothing to nobody) is to give the Garmin a chance.  Let the people cheat if they want to but I'll have the tracker on for years to come.  Though I might consider changing to the strike down the road once these lighter ones wear out.

I own a Garmin and love it!!!!!!  They are a great product.  I'm not nuts about the battery life but everything else is awesome.    

That is a good thought, and it would seem to make the most sense on the variations between the two units. My unit is the newer of the two, and I did run the Garmin update on it once.

I know that the other unit is one of the originals, as it came with the DC20 collar. (He now has a DC30 as well and that's what we used). I am also sure that the other unit has never been updated.

I am not sure which unit is actually better. My unit alerts of the conflict a lot faster, but also gets confused easier. His unit stays locked onto his collar better but is much slower to show the conflict alert. So he has a better possibilty of being able to find his dog with a conflicted collar, but also a higher chance of having a conflicted collar without knowing it. Of course other variables may have made a difference as well. We probably should have reversed the collars placements (they were about 110 yards apart) to confirm that it was the units and not some weird radio transmission thing caused by location.

AKC has released the final, approved version of the new rules regarding tracking collars, they can be found (along with the list of approved collars) at www.akc.org/trackingdevices/.  The Garmin is now an approved device, and if I take the site at face value it is actually approved for use now (the new rules are effective 1 Aug, but the site lists collars approved now).

One change of note is that the judges may allow the handler to carry the receiver as long as it is off.

Rick