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krtennyson Northern Virginia
 MH Posts:69


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| 01/30/2008 7:07 AM |
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Hey all, I am working with my first show potential puppy (she is 12 weeks old), and am looking for advice on the best methods to get her ready for confirmation showing.
Particularly, how do you practice stacking? Do you work with your pup on a table? I notice the breeder had a special stacking table with a raised pedestal for each foot, to try and encourage the pup to stay stacked. Is this necessary? As GSPs are stacked on the floor, is it a good idea to work on a table?
What sequence of training events do you go through with your puppy? Is it best to teach them to "hold" (stand motionless), prior to working on stacking?
I have purchased "Raising a Champion: A Beginner's Guide to Showing Dogs," are there other essential books out there? I think there is only so much you can learn from a book with regards to training and handling. I am also planning to go to a training day hosted by our local GSP club, which will cover handling and stacking. Unfortunately this is two months away and I want to start working with the pup asap.
I have had shorthairs for five years, and will never own another breed. They are truly amazing. I am excited to get into confirmation, any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
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Opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has one.
Genuine dialogue benefits everyone, getting on your soapbox is a waste of everyone's time. |
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singltrak Las Cruces, NM
 MH Posts:1149


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| 01/30/2008 8:18 AM |
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Oh yeah...lots of thoughts here. Congrats on your new pup! I've got a 15 week old fellow who knows no fear nor no strangers and also does NOT know how to keep still. Trips to the vet for his vaccinations (and his feet don't touch the floor) are a real adventure! LOL! Working on a table, or even the top of a crate will give you control while they are still small enough to handle. It will also teach them to stand quietly on a grooming table for trimming or for toenail grinding. The extra legs you describe are called Happy Legs and definitely teach the dog that moving a foot will put that foot out in space. (and the dog off balance) Many show folk own a set and use them exclusively, though they are a bit pricey. You can get the same effect with young pups by putting them on a table, and stacking them, then putting your hand under the rear end and setting them slightly off the edge of the table, so they have nothing under them. It sets them off balance and they quickly learn to stand still while all four feet are on solid ground. (Same effect you would get if you start to step off onto a ladder from a roof ) Once you have the puppy stacked, practice with bait. Small pieces of cheese work well, so do small bits of hot dog. (I try to stay away from commercial dog treats...too many additives and food coloring). Let pup nibble while you are holding the cheese right at his mouth, and if you need to hold his tail up at the same time. Stacking is important, but so is moving on a lead. See if your local kennel club has handling classes, or maybe where you buy your food offers classes also) and go to those. Socialization is important too, as is getting other people to go over your dog while he's standing still. There's several good books. One of my favorites is "Show Me", by Caroline Coile. You can find it on amazon.com or at Barnes and Noble Bookstores. Its written in a simple style, easy to follow, and gives you ideas for things you will want, need, absolutely have to have (and those you don't, but want anyway and eventually get). In 18 years, I've gone from a two door sedan to my now (4th) Dodge Caravan and everything in between! Have fun and don't hesitate to holler if you have other questions! Oh, and look around your area for Fun Matches you can take puppy too...cheap for entries and lots of room for mistakes as there are lots of puppies doing the show thing for the first time. Best wishes ! Phyllis and the Singltrak furtribe www.singltrakshorthairs.com |
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Look to the Past, Breed for the Future |
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KDTsGSPs MI
 MH Posts:206


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| 01/31/2008 12:20 AM |
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Ken, Where did you end up getting your new baby from? Do you still have my number? Give me a call & I can also try to help you over the phone. |
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Rebecca KDTs GSPs where the history making GSP (AM/CAN CH, UKC UWPS UWPCHX GRCH KDT's Blazin' Bleugras JH RN CGC) lives! The 1st GSP to ever get weight pull titles! |
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krtennyson Northern Virginia
 MH Posts:69


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| 01/31/2008 6:39 AM |
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She is from NMK, Carol Chadwick feels she has excellent potential. I think I can rustle up your number, will try and call this weekend.
Ken |
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Opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has one.
Genuine dialogue benefits everyone, getting on your soapbox is a waste of everyone's time. |
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singltrak Las Cruces, NM
 MH Posts:1149


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| 01/31/2008 8:35 AM |
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Hi Ken, I'm back again. My 15 week old guy is also from Carol, the KT/Spencer litter. He goes back to my old foundation bitch, Ch NMK's Amiable Ultimatum, JH, GSPCA Dual Producing Dam of the Year for 2000), so also back to my roots. How nice that we have relatives... Holler if I can help also (singltrak1@yahoo.com) or give me a call anytime-number on webpage at www.singltrakshorthairs.com . Phyllis and furtribe |
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Look to the Past, Breed for the Future |
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Almost Heaven GSP Springfield, WV
 MH Posts:731


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| 02/01/2008 9:34 PM |
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Ken, Would that Training Day be Mason-Dixon? If so, look my Wife Jen and I up. I'll be coaching on Senior/Master and Jen will probably be over helping the Juniors. We'd be happy to help out with some direction. Bruce and Jennifer Shaffer |
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Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.
Bruce Shaffer Almost Heaven GSP's
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krtennyson Northern Virginia
 MH Posts:69


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| 02/02/2008 10:05 AM |
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| Yes, Mason Dixon. That is great, we will definitely look you up, appreciate it! |
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Opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has one.
Genuine dialogue benefits everyone, getting on your soapbox is a waste of everyone's time. |
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pattyl
 MH Posts:304

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| 02/02/2008 5:48 PM |
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I've been on the edge of the dog show world for years. I'm the one they call to show the dogs that aren't supposed to win!
For a while, I really wanted to show Spot. Then I realized he found it stressful and abandoned my plan. The best thing I did was take Spot to conformation classes to prepare him for the chaos and noise of an actual show. I just took him and sat a couple times and then we started participating. Next I took him to a couple shows and just set up his crate and walked around with him. He would lay on a blanket next to me and just watch everything.
Spot had a tough early life and your pup will probably have an easier time of it. But I thought the classes were worthwhile. |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 03/18/2008 6:05 AM |
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So, how difficult is it to title a dog? How difficult is it to bring out the best in a dog? If there are books about the subject, it can't be all that easy. Can anyone recount a time when a dog didn't place due to poor handling?(not neccessarily your dog) I hear many times that - my dog acted up or was to jumping in the ring and didn't place or that my dog was more interested in the birds flying and didn't place. I want to try this but am scared stiff. And one more question - how do you handle the criticism and decide when it's not going to happen for this dog? Sorry for all the questions. I'm brainstorming. Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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singltrak Las Cruces, NM
 MH Posts:1149


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| 03/18/2008 7:19 AM |
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Hi Francine, First things first...you learn to develop a very, very thick skin. Though, I'm smiling over that, it isn't necessarily something to smile over. Sometimes you win and know you shouldn't have, and you say thank you and take your points and sometimes you lose and know that you should have, and you congratulate the winner and smile and leave. Is your new pup from show lines or are there friends in your area who show? Either one of those folks would be okay to start with as a mentor. You'll find your best friends in dogs are seldom in your own breed. Someone who is knowledgeable even in another sporting breed or in showing can be a great help in critiquing your dog and your handling, without making it seem (if you don't have that thick skin yet) that they are trashing at the same time. One thing my first mentor suggested, and that I've continued with my puppy owners, is that they keep track of the judges they show to and what that judge did...if you do it by alpha last name, years down the line you'll know which judges to take which dogs to...some judges judge the other end of the lead (who is handling the dog), some may like solid liver dogs, some may only want light, white factored dogs...even if you don't win, write down what did and what it looked like. If you walk into the ring and find you are scared to death, tell the judge...this is my first show. Most of them are former exhibitors and love giving handling suggestions to new exhibitors. (of course, there is a limited time you can use this excuse, LOL!) Find a handling class near you and go on a regular basis, go to a show and watch people handling. Find one or two whose style you like and maybe video them. Yes, you can definitely lose by poor handling or not paying attention at the right time. Dog showing can be fun, but don't ever assume you know it all. People who've been around for awhile call them 30 minute experts. Thankfully, most of them leave the breed after finding that perhaps they don't know everything. Keep going to classes, keep watching, and buy the best dog you can afford from a reputable kennel. Main thing, always try to smile and enjoy yourself. This is supposed to be a hobby, and it is supposed to be fun. Sometimes its much harder than others....(I can recall one or two times that I've left the ring in tears. The veterans are the worst and having five in any class is the very hardest of all. You know that someone is going to walk out of that class with nothing but a smile). BTDT. Holler at me if I can be of help... Phyllis Singltrak www.singltrakshorthairs.com |
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Look to the Past, Breed for the Future |
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Mydogiscrazy Chapel Hill NC
 MH Posts:323


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| 03/18/2008 9:45 AM |
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| this is a good thread. i've decided that i want to get into showing too. problem is, i don't have a dog. my girl got spayed early and i'm not quite ready (space, time and finances) for another dog. but i am going to read up on the show threads, go to some more shows, talk to my breeder and i'll be ready for my next dog. can't wait. i hear alot about the politics or the subjectiveness of some judges, but the competitor in me is still going to give it a try. |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7856


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| 03/18/2008 11:36 AM |
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Phyllis is dead on in her description of showing. I am a first time owner/handler with Halo and when I first thought about showing I started reading books and going to a handling class (more for the handler than the dog). The thing that has stuck in my mind was from one of the books. The person who wrote the book said if you are getting into dog showing to win, don't do it. If you are getting in to have fun and do something fun with your dog, you will enjoy it. As Phyllis said you never know what the outcome, but if you and your four legged kid are having a great time, it doesn't matter.
To answer your question about handler error, I have a recent example of something I didn't do as a handler and the judge actually told me that that one booboo cost me Winners Bitch in a major. The judge had pulled Halo and I and another handler and her bitch. He had us both do another down and back. Halo has a tendency to turn her head to look at me on the down and back which makes her side step a bit. I know this and usually try to keep her head more even with my leg so she doesn't have to move her head to see me. On my second down and back I didn't pay as close attention as I should have and she cocked her head which caused a small side step. After the competition the judge came over and told me that is what cost us Winners Bitch and a major. This story does have happy ending as the next day (after a night of beating myself up for the mental error) Halo took Winners Bitch and Best of Winners for the major.
So, when in the ring you never let down your mental guard down and remember you are always showing, even when the judge is focused on another dog. You never know when the judge will look up and look down the line of dogs. You don't want them to catch your dog in a position that isn't to her favor. That doesn't mean they always have to be stacked, but it does mean you need to know how your dog appears if a judge glances up.
I love showing Halo even when we don't win. We have a little ways to go to get her CH, but we are getting closer every show. When we get it, I will be ecstatic as this will be my first dog to show and I will have done it all as an owner/handler.
I also show in obedience and rally too which is a different ball game, but just as much fun. You might want to look at one of those with the dog you have now as the dog does not have to be intact to show in obedience or rally. It would also give you some experience at dog shows.
By the way, I enjoy showing so much that we are on my breeders list for pick male in her next litter which should be this summer if all things go well.
Good Luck!!
Bev and the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo) |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 03/18/2008 2:02 PM |
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Texas Belle, are you trying to narrow down the competition???? (just kidding) That's one scary story. Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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momsgspz Garden City, MI
 MH Posts:174


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| 03/20/2008 9:41 AM |
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It seems like I have been doing the show thing forever but it has only been 7 years! I still consider myself new. The advice that has been given so far is great! The growing a thick skin is probably the best. Remember, this is an opinion game. Everyone has a different one! Also, finding friends in other breeds is valuable advice! When I was naot taking points, everyone was very nice to me. When I started winning... One long time breeder told me that when people started talking behind my back I had arrived! Make sure you surround yourself with people you can trust.
As far as training yourself and your dog, some very valuable tools are a mirror to practice stacking in and a video camera to check movement. Still cameras can help also. Then be honest with yourself. A mirror is also very improtant when dressing for the ring! For girls, make sure you can bend over and not show your stuff and for guys, make sure its not too tight!
One tip I got when I was first starting out is to take a show lead and put keys on the end. then you gait as if you have your dog. If the keys make noise, you are bouncing too much! You need to move smoothly so your dog can too. Take long strides so you dog will too.
Best advice...listen to what everyone says. try it. if it works, great, if not, move on! Ane of course, have fun! If you arent having fun, its not for you. Good Luck! I for one love to see new people in the ring! I am so excited as in 2 weeks 2 of my puppy people will make their debut handling their own dogs! This forum is a great tool as well!
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Hotwired GSPs...Breeding to standard and Beyond... |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 03/20/2008 1:07 PM |
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I agree, the advice has been great. This "opinion" business is tough. I have been told to take a comment of a particular individual with a grain of salt. Boy, was this advice right on. People are out there with daggars waiting for someone they can throw at. I will try the ring thing if for nothing else, the experience. A problem I have is that I am 5'2" and I can not get him to stretch out enough. Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Mydogiscrazy Chapel Hill NC
 MH Posts:323


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| 03/21/2008 1:50 PM |
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| sure you can Francine, you just have to run faster! |
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NCGSP
 MH Posts:229


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| 03/31/2008 8:28 AM |
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Phyliss has given some great advise... If you can find A Mentor someone who is an experienced handler then see if they will find the time to work with you .
I have taught numerous puppy people of mine and many have gone on to finish there own dogs compelety owner handled.
You do need to keep track of judges and ask lots of questions.
I also find if you attend a few shows and just sit and watch various handlers you can build your own style and pick and choose various techniques handlers use.Just keep in mind that Every dog can not be shown the same way ..Each requires different things.
If any of you are local to me in North Carolina I would be Very happy to work with you
Good Luck and Most of all keep it fun for the puppy & You ...
Dorothea
www.fieldfinekennels.com
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