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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7835
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| 09/13/2012 8:40 AM |
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| I have to agree on the intelligence of shorthairs. I too have had and trained dogs all my life. About 10 years ago I got into shorthairs and they are so smart, but they also so badly want to please. That combination is fun and challenging to training. The challenge is because they are so smart you have to be very creative to keep them interested in things like obedience. I compete with my dogs in the obedience ring and I am usually at odds with the people I train with because many like to do repetitions of the exercises. For me if my dog does it right the first time, we are done. If you repeat too many times the shorthairs start trying to figure out what they did wrong. I also play allot of thinking games with them once they understand a command. This helps them a whole lot when something different comes up in a competition. I had this happen when I tossed the dumb bell over the jump. It skidded quite a ways and landed right next to a white wall (the dumb bell was also white). When my dog went over the jump it was obvious she did not know where the dumb bell was as it had totally disappeared against the white wall. She immediately went into search mode because this was so much like a game I play where I put the dumb bell in odd places. In any case it took her a little more time than normal, but she found the dumb bell and returned it to me. We got full points on that exercise and a nice complement from the judge. Yes, they are very smart and fun to train. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Tizziec
MH
Posts:66
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| 09/13/2012 8:50 AM |
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I have seen from the start how smart Jake is (but then I am seeing him next to a springer, who just in general may be happy, but he sure isn't the sharpest crayon in the box LOL) Jakehas been very responsive, and is really getting the hang of a couple of things. Considering I think this is the first he has ever been trained, it's pretty cool. I am also in amazement at his combination eager to please and absolutely desire for physical affection! This being the first time I have ever encountered the GSP, I am pleased and often times challenged myself LOL I can see myself wondering soon in our training, who is playing tricks with who here LOL
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Rose
MH
Posts:362
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| 09/13/2012 1:30 PM |
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Welcome Tizziec.
We also adopted a GSP @ 1.5 years, so I relate!
We were having the conversation last night as well about the GSP intelligence. We have a Birttany as well, and she does not even measure. I found our Brittany is very smart as a dog, but our GSP has incredible comprehension of human language.
We were listing all the words he knows, and we can't even keep track. He knows that multiple words mean the same thing, and appears to have the ability to understand sentences. My husband said he's the type of dog, you could put four people in a room, tell him a name, and he would go to the person. From other rooms, we can say call him top find a specific item, and he will go find it and bring it back. Now if we could only teach him "beer." |
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Tizziec
MH
Posts:66
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| 09/14/2012 4:38 AM |
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| HAHA.. The Springer who passed last year we called "the bear" but in reality he was a philosopher. He had the most expressive eyebrows I have ever seen, and you could just tell he was thinking all the time. OMG I eneded up walking him down to the docks and would sit there having full on conversations with him LOL.. people must have thought I was NUTS! Since Jake is so new, everything with him is still a surprise, and since I am the one taking on so much of the training, I get to really see his lightbulbs coming on. My BF, doesn't quite get just how smart the dog is, which unfortunately means he is breaking a few of my training rules, not realizing jake knows what he has to do, but isn't above messing with daddy to get what he wants without performing (ARG) But then that's daddy for ya HAHA I know better LOL |
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Tizziec
MH
Posts:66
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| 09/14/2012 5:20 AM |
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So the arguments between the dogs, which I FULLY anticipated as soon as I heard he was after rescuing a male dog, are turning out to be too much for daddy. Somehow in somehwat impulsive decision to adopt without preparation (in his head the dog would be put down tomorrow and he had to get him out of the shelter, and I get that but..) he also got it in his head that the two dogs would just instantly get along great and be awesome playmates. Problem is, Buster is a bit of a do-his-own thing dog. Happy, doesn't often fight with other dogs, but doesn't play with them either... he just looks for a leaf or a bubble to chase.
Anyway, daddy is not handling this well. Every little growl and he is instantly going to "this will never work, they will NEVER get along" in his head, while he is also not doing very much on HIS part to make it work. I have absolutely confidence that if we employed some basic techniques more consistently, things would be fine. I think that if I could be there more it would really help (I have learned over 4 years how to work with "daddy" LOL) but I can't. SO... I am contacting a behavior consultant who works on reward based training to come take a look. Hopefully a pro will not only give us the info we need regarding their interaction specifically, but maybe daddy will be more likely to HEAR and take note of a pro, rather than me trying act as the go-between from what I read, and am told, and him. I can;t keep seeing daddy so down, and there is no doubt that his attitude is having an effect on the over-all feeling of the house.
I love the guy's heart, I love that he has his olddog's name tattooed on his arm in memory, I love the way his face lights up when he sees his babies after work, and I love that he was so compelled to save a dog that he did it without thinking, but it can be interesting at the same time (not to mention tiring). We are in the proccess of doing a lot of things now, that truly should have been done BEFORE introducing a new dog to the house. I really wish my home was designed so that I could take jake for a little while and start over with introducing him to daddy's house, after some things are dealt with. OH boy... daddy is gonna be the death of me (either that or I am just WAY too calm about the dog's quarrels, but I honestly see them as something that is both natural, and easily dealt with/fixed, for lack of a better word)... I will also add that once this is all settled, daddy owes me a VACATION LOL |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1188
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| 09/14/2012 1:51 PM |
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Kudos on taking another step and contacting a trainer. I'll admit that as I read I anticipated you saying you were being forced to return him. If dogs don't instantly hit it off (and often times even if they do), if they are living together, I do believe they need time and patience to come to terms with having to share their pack with another. But, this exact situation you have going on is why many shelters ask that you please bring any existing family dogs or dogs that will be in frequent contact to meet and see how it goes (though that isn't always a tell tell being that shelters are stressful and dogs can't be judged fairly at them...IMO, anyway).
There simply will be no easy and fast fix all, and "daddy's" emotions may very well be serving to make things worse. If his anxiety is through the roof at any little interaction, they are no doubt picking up on this. And as the woman who loves him, you hate seeing him anxious and you may not realize it, but I'm sure his anxiety is making you anxious for him. There's a whole lot of anxiety floating around, how are these dogs supposed to not be anxious too? You're willing to do what it takes, we can tell. You can do it. He needs to too. Maybe a trainer who is there in person can better help to put into perspective for him what he needs to do and why.
I'll also be honest in that I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly what the living arrangement is and what dog is where and when (maybe I just skim too fast)...but dogs thrive on routine. If the dogs are switching locations often, it may be better off to leave them together in one place (Jake crated in a room inaccessible to Buster when no one is home to monitor) until they get used to one another and come to terms with the new situation. Even once they come to accept one another, there may still be tiffs. It's just dog behavior.
Good luck! |
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Tizziec
MH
Posts:66
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| 09/14/2012 2:16 PM |
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The dogs did meet at the shelter and had I been there I would have pointed out the story will be different at home.. I know the resident dog all too well to buy his behavior with other dogs when we are out lol.. The situation is that the dogs live with my bf or about five years, but every weekday afternoon I go, walk both dogs, spend some time there with each, then bring jake back to my house to work on training and to eleviate some of the anxiety. In the mornings, daddy's 21 year old son is with them, but is more a dog sitter than trainer so to speak. On weekends, my daughter and I will go out with the bf and both dogs to work on neutral territory togetherness lol.
At night, daddy has both, and often that's when the tension rises. I over some nights to help, but my daughter is only 11 and I have grad school 2 nights a week. I know it will take time, but daddy needs some help, so I am working on the behavior consultant, plus the resident dog leaves in a week for a two week training school, at which time more attention can be paid to Jakes training as well. Fingers crossed.
Jake is with me now and kind stole my lounge chair haha, we tried sharing, but what's comfy for him... Not so much for me  I need to get him a dog bed |
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Tizziec
MH
Posts:66
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| 09/14/2012 2:18 PM |
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| I will say, that jake has a thing for trying to "mount" other dogs. It was just the resident dog, but now every dog he sees. There is no growling and I am not too sure what to make of it, but the action at home is definitely NOT appreciated by the resident dog, though I do think I remember the same behaviors between buster and his big brother.. What on earth is this mounting thing all about? |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7835
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| 09/15/2012 10:21 AM |
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I would suspect insecurity on the part of Jake. He sounds like he is confused about his position in the pack which may also explain some of the other behavior. The behaviors sound like he is trying to establish his place. You might want to think about working on establishing that place for him by setting up routines that get followed by you and daddy. Dogs are happiest just like little kids when they have routines. The humping like the biting is very likely all tied together. My guess is if you fix one the other will fade too. I think I read in a post that you are already making him sit before he goes through a door and you leave first then Jake. That is good, but it needs to consistent and followed by everyone in the family. At feeding time I also make all my dogs sit and they do not go to their bowl until released. They also always get fed in the same order. They have to work for treats and privileges. They do not get on my bed unless I allow it and I do not tolerate any guarding of anything. If they get protective of a toy I take it away and put it where they can't get it. The more dogs you have the more important this type of routine becomes. Consistency is also key with some dogs when you are establishing the pecking order, and with some dogs that consistency has to remain in place forever.
Also people tend to apply anthropomorphism to dogs (think of the people that dress their dogs up as little kids and have outfits for each day and apply other human behaviors to dogs). Dogs are not people. They do not behave, think, or respond like people. Unfortunately, this type of behavior whether extreme or mild can also cause issues. I am only mentioning this as it can also lend itself to some of the symptoms you have described. Just think about it when you evaluate any types of things that might be contributing to the issues you have described. Good luck! I think you can get beyond these issues, and I am happy you are working on it. Jake sounds like a good dog. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Tizziec
MH
Posts:66
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| 09/15/2012 11:37 AM |
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Difference between mommy and daddy:
Mommy: I know jake has been ill, but that is no excuse not to learn good manners. Even if he is starving (which he is NOT from what WE feed him LOL) It's not gonna kill him to sit before I put down his food, and take a chill!
Daddy: Oh poor Jake, we will work harder with him when he is better. Look, he is starving, he is so hungry he can't calm himself to eat! Once he gains the weight on he will calm down (not kidding that was the argument last night till after a few minutes of jumping up, jake sat down for me and was held there till I put the food down, then a little more, till I said OK and let him get it... He was still JUST as happy for FOOD LOL)
Yup... I am the MEAN mommy, just ask my kid HAAAAAA No excuses LOL |
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Tizziec
MH
Posts:66
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| 09/17/2012 5:14 AM |
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| Well, daddy has given up. He refuses to put in the effort on his part to make anything work. I absolutely cannot do more to help work this out. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE if anyone is in the NJ area and has the patience to work with an EXTREMELY loving, wonderful animal who happens to be smart as hell, andmaking HUGE progress on his training is a VERY VERY VERY short time, PLEASE call this number 732-575-2842 (bob) andarrange to place Jake in a home he deserves! My heart is absolutely broken. I have worked out every possible scenerio in my head for taking him myself, but my situation just does not allow it. PLEASE help me find Jake a good loving home! He is the sweetest little boy and I love him to pieces, but daddy can't seem tofind it in him to work it out on his end. If you want to see picture of Jake, I can email them or text them from my phone. |
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