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gadawgsfan
SH
Posts:56
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| 02/07/2013 11:23 AM |
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We moved her crate into our room a couple months ago and it has been going very well, as for sleeping but she has peed in it even before we moved it into the bedroom. She was sleeping all night until a couple weeks ago and this waking up between 2 and 4 started. We have tried clocks, radios, fans,covering her bed or towel at all, still she pees every night and starts whining. So yesterday as I said we was outside most of the day playing and a several few minute sessions of basic obedience stuff. She was exhausted last night around 9:00 she was trying to fall asleep while we were watching tv but I would not let her hoping she would sleep all night and not pee, wee the results are in she did sleep until 4:30 but she also peed in there. I think I may try to block part of it off again like when she was a little puppy. She would only have room for her bed and to turn around. If she does not hold it then she will have to lay in it,daw
As far as the exercise goes some days it is not much but some deays it's several miles, though nothing seems to make a difference |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1217
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| 02/07/2013 11:49 AM |
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| She should only have the amount of room needed to turn around, so yes I would agree with taking the space down. I also can't reiterate enough to start setting an alarm to let her out and beat her to the accident and the crying. Do this , making your alarm a little later over the course of days until you get to the latest she was waking and find her still sleeping sound |
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3155
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| 02/07/2013 12:05 PM |
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Do you happen to know if she is standing up/squatting to pee when in the crate? or is she doing it while still laying down?
I believe you said she is 6 months... most wait till first heat to spay but vets will do it as early as 5 months... so my question is... is she spayed?
Is the cage in your room where she can see you? like the side of the bed?
I would defiantly make sure there are no medical issues..bladder infections ect...
Also give the leash a try at night... this will rule out cage anxiety.... |
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gadawgsfan
SH
Posts:56
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| 02/08/2013 10:53 AM |
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my wife worked from home yesterday so she did not stay in the crate during the day. she took her for a long walk (4 miles or so) and when I got home she was acting a little wild still. She again was trying to go to sleep around 9:30 as she did the day before when I was at home,so we played some more before winding down for bed. She goes directly to her crate which is in our room 4 feet from my side of the bed, she is out within minutes and snoring. I was set to get up at 4:00 and soon as she heard my clock she was up and ready to go. I leashed her from the crate took her out to potty and back to the crate, she cried until i got up at 5:00.
I fed her and starting getting ready,while I am getting ready she always lays on a bed we have in our bathroom and goes back to sleep until my wife wakes up at 6:30, since all this started she will start scratching on the door soon as I leave the house.
I cant remember all the questions to answer, she can see us from her crate,she has not been spayed 6 months old today, i have not seen her pee but my wife said that she has heard it so I am assuming that she is squatting like she does outside.I did up the amount of food that we have been feeding her. Tonight I am going to try the leash and bed beside our bed and tomorrow while we are out for a couple hours she will be crated and I am going to shrink her room in the crate.
Should I leave her bed in the crate or just put her in it on the plastic tray, I hate to not have anythiung in there, but whatever it takes at this point we ar ewilling to try.
I am also going to start some new training this weekend about her bolting out of her crate, I think it has been her knowing its time to eat in the morning is the reason why she does that.After reading some of your post, I also think we have not been letting her get rid of some of the pent up energy she has maybe not enough exercise could be the reason for her waking up.
I am not giving up on her I am determined to have an amazing well behaved GSP. I want so bad for her to do what I ask and when I ask. I am scared to let her off leash at this point in fear that she will take off and not return on command, I also want her to be able to become a good hunting partner when the time comes.
Barry |
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3155
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| 02/08/2013 11:50 AM |
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I just wanted to rule out spay incontinence which sounds ruled out since she hasn't been spayed...
I am torn at whether you leave the bed in the crate or not... the myth is they won't potty on their bed, which some do... so people will then take the bedding out so it is easier to clean... so I don't think it matters what you do... if you want the scent gone for sure don't use the bedding spray down the tray with apple cidar vinegar (bleach works but it is harsh)...
I think if you do the leash at night you will at least get the sleep you need so I am curious to hear how that will go for you...
Definitely don't let her dart from the cage... you should be able to tell her to sit or down and stay... open the door and then either leash her or give her the ok to run out, but she should wait for your commands...
It is hard to say how much exercise she needs or what is not enough or too much... I know they say for sleepwalkers they need more exercise (studies based on people of course lol) but also that sometimes too much exercise causes restlessness or muscles aches in the middle of the night which cause you to wake up... is it the same for dogs... who knows...
I am sure she is too young to do off leash yet... you need a good come command and then around 12 months you can start testing it with e-collar back up... |
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marisl
BC, Canada
SH
Posts:54
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| 02/08/2013 1:26 PM |
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Regarding the bolting out of the crate - our puppy used to do that, he would fly out like a bullet. We did exercises with him a few times where we opened the crate door a tiny bit, and when he started shoving his head out, closed it immediately again. This several times in a row, until he stopped reacting to the tiny opening. Then opened the door a bit more, and again, closed it the millisecond we saw him starting to go for it. It only took a couple of sessions of him getting it that he only gets to go out if he waits patiently until we say "ok" - we don't require him to be in sit or down in the crate as he waits for the ok, although he typically chooses to sit. (As an inexperienced dog owner, I felt like a complete idiot for having complained about the struggle with him flying out of the crate for two months, when it only took pretty much only a day to "fix" the issue after getting this tip from the trainer. Sigh.  ) |
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gadawgsfan
SH
Posts:56
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| 02/08/2013 2:09 PM |
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well I am new at this as well and think I am as much at fault as she is, I am strictly learning as I go and trying to be more patient, I just did not want to pay somene to do the basic training, I have read a multitude of books and watched numerous videos on training.I wanted to build the bond from the begining hope for a long term companion for me and my family,Im sure we will get there.
Most of what has worked best for me is the info I have got from other membes on this site.I will be taking her to someone to train her for hunting although the hunting part is secondary for us. We want her as a pet first,If cant have both then we want her as part of our family.
We use the here command and she does really well inside our house and even outside on a long cord and a a friends property, until there is distraction it goes from about 90% to 10% still got a little work to do.
I have used a cheap collar I borrowed from a friend for correction last month a few times on the lowest setting to see if it would help with a few things, it did help, it only works from about 20 feet away.After reading on here someone said not to use them until they are older, so I stopped.
She had been doing good in the crate until all this started up,except for peeing and darting out. Hopefully with the info that has been discussed in this post we can get these issues under control in the next few weeks.
I cant tell you how much it has ment to me for the help, all of you keep me going in this venture of helping willow and bringing her to her full potential.
Thanksagain
Barry |
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3155
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| 02/08/2013 5:14 PM |
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For basic training and basic at homee rules u r best to do on your own cuz u want her to see u as the leader so u r very correct in wanting that...
U may want to rule out bladder infections ect by taking her to the vet... but then sometimes your gut instict is best... is she having to go out alot all day long when u r home with her? Does she squat to go and then just a drip comes out?
The key to training is consistancy and patience... which both can be hard... i have griwn up with dogs and horses... with horses they are so big that u can not give them an inch, training has to stay strict... my first dog i owned on my own was a boxer and i made several mistakes...
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gadawgsfan
SH
Posts:56
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| 02/10/2013 4:54 PM |
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well we had a great day yesterday and last night, took willow to a friends house that lives on the lake she was able to play off leash with his two dogs for a couple hours. She did not like the water as well as I thought she would, though it is probably around 50 degree water temp. put her in the travel crate in the truck and did a few things before heading home, she did pee in the crate, not bad since it was in the truck and very easy to clean.
She tried going to sleep all afternoon and evening, I did allow her to have a short 30 minute nap around 6:00 and then we played for a short time and she wanted to go back to sleep, bottom line is she slept all night and did not pee in her crate. She was exhausted from the play time we had, she has also been really lazy for the most part today. We were just excited to sleep all night for the first time in a few weeks.we will see how tonight goes.
Still going to take her to the vet on wednesday to have her checked for an infection to make sure that is ruled out.
Just wanted to give an update on her and us getting an all night sleep,woohoo!!!! |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7929
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| 02/10/2013 10:08 PM |
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For training at her age I would focus on basic obedience training and would not get in any hurry to take her off leash unless you have her in a fenced area. Also, never give a command you can't correct. So if she is off leash and you think she might not come if you give the here command don't give the command. You do not want her to figure out she can disobey you. Also give commands only once. If she doesn't respond then you have to correct that by making her do what you asked. For example, if you say here and she doesn't respond then you reel her in with her leash or check cord. Also never end training on a bad note. Even if you have to give her a command she already knows end with that and praise. I also never drill my dogs. If for instance I am training and I asked my dog to sit and she does what I want I praise and move on to the next exercise. Remember too to praise when she does well, and you can always up the ante on her too. If she is good at sit, then when you ask her to sit you up the ante by rewarding only a really straight sit. And with shorthairs they love games so use games in your training. Get creative. When mine know a command we play a game where I will call out different words and they only get praise when they respond to he right command. This will help with their attention skills allot. For example, on the recall I will start out using words that sound nothing like come. If they get up I will say oops and take them back and sit them back down and we start over. If they flinch but don't get up that is ok, but if they get up even if they stop it is oops and I put them back in a sit. When they get good with words like banana or whatever, I up the ante and use words that sound like come, something like comb, hum, etc. I then add their name. They can't react to their name except to look. They only win if they respond correctly to the correct command. They catch on fast and really work hard. Just remember never fuss if they get it wrong, but really praise when they get it right. If they are doing well move on to something else.
Get creative with your training, keep it fast and fun. Shorthairs are really smart and get bored fast. They are also pretty soft so I almost always use positive reinforcement and save the negative for when I really want to make an impression. I also will praise effort even if they don't get it completely right. I use something like good try, and then will ask them again and help them to get it right. If they are giving effort and don't get it right it is my fault as a trainer, not theirs. They know I am asking them to do something, but aren't sure exactly what. so, I start over and approach the training from a different angle. Don't get in a hurry with your training, but if you do move on and the dog struggles back up a couple of steps in your training. Never set your dog up to fail either.
If you do training in addition to exercise you will find it will wear your dog out. I actually find the mental work tires them out more than physical exercise. Challenge your girl to use her head. Make her figure things out. Dogs are very spatial so just moving the location where you train can confuse them to where you may have to take steps backwards in your training. So they may be great in your house and their yard, but you go to a schoolyard and they may not get anything right. So the more variety you can give them the better they will get. Good luck! |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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gadawgsfan
SH
Posts:56
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| 02/14/2013 5:18 AM |
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just an update,willow has been doing better with sleeping she is still waking up earlier than we would like but atleast its not at 2:30 or 3:00 4:30 this morning.
I could not get her into to see the vet, I do havean appointment for next wednesday, I do think something may be wrong I was off yesterday she went out to pee 7 or 8 times and pooped three times, not trying to be gross but when she poops its alot, all three times. she never poops in her crate only pee.
I was meeting my wife for dinner so i took her out to potty before i left,she peed and I put her in the crate, i was gone for 2 hours and come home to a crate with pee in it AGAIN. its so aggravating!!!!
We have been able to stop the darting out of the crate by using suggetions on thos forum,that was easy to correct so very thankful for that, the sleeping is getting better,so thankful for that as well.
one question i have for now. do you think she is just used to sitting/standing in her own pee that it does not matter to her any more? we have tried three different sprays as well nothing is working.
Thanks again everyone
Barry |
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3155
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| 02/14/2013 5:44 AM |
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Some don't care about sitting in it... also if it is anxiety it is a nervous reaction that they don't really control...
If she is pooping that much she might be eating too much or the food isn't good... a good food will mostly be absorbed and used by their body and only the waste is evacuated (LOL)... also if you feed too much what isn't used is pooped out....
Gotta love having kids and animals cuz poop talk is always on the table!!! |
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gadawgsfan
SH
Posts:56
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| 02/14/2013 6:27 AM |
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she can hold it for much longer than the 2 hours i know, I have seen her hold it longer, it maybe a little anxiety also.
i did up her food intake after starting this post and getting suggestions, before she would scarf her food in a matter of a minute, now she has slowed down and takes a little more time to eat and she is also not as aggressive while eating. So i may be feeding to much now.
The brand I am using is what the breeder was using and says he always uses, it's called showtime puppy food in a green bag. I think its also says 30/20 on the bag. |
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3155
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| 02/14/2013 6:57 AM |
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I never heard of that food so I did a search on the dog food review site
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/showtime-dog-food/
I feed purina pro sport which on the food reviews is mid-tier 3 stars opposed to the below average 2.5 stars of showtime...
Purina pro sport is an all ages so you can feed puppies on it... of course there are even better foods than it... I tried taste of the wild and blue buffalo and they didn't work with my dogs and they are so much money... purina pro sport seems to work well with my dogs and my budget...
Feeding amounts are tricky... my older dog is a speed eater and will wolf his food down and then gag afterward... I bought a slow feeder dish (it has a raised portion to the bowl so they they have to eat food around it) also I water his food down and that helps slow him up...
I agree it is totally frustrating knowing she can hold it more than the 2 hours... she does at night and is even getting better at night...
If she has anxiety in the cage when you leave her you may want to try blocking her in a room like the kitchen instead of using the cage.... there are also air freshener type plug ins and such that help sooth anxiety...
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13043
but you also have to keep working on using the cage even when you are home and around... like put her in it when you watch TV... it will help her not relate it to you leaving... |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1217
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| 02/14/2013 8:05 PM |
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I would continue as planned to have her looked at just in case (though i would think if it were a UTI, she would be having accidents in the home when out of crate as well - or is it possible that she is and they are unseen?). Ruling that out, I'm still going to say this is anxiety, possibly coupled with pent up energy. At your pup's age, my Bella was starting to need more activity than what we once got away with, and we began to miss her puppy nap days  Bella gets about an hour and a half or more off lead hike or walk a day. She is very calm in the home, and sleeps the majority of the day. If I was stuck with only being able to leash walk her, it would take a much longer walk with lots of things to stimulate her mind. I also typically train a little daily with her in the evenings just to work her mind a little. She's then content playing calmly with toys or napping the rest of the evening. But, I can remember the 6-8 month range being her most demanding in the way of wanting more activity.
I was also going to suggest what Splat did in maybe attempting another option rather than the crate. Did you end up doing away with bedding? Bella would chew her bedding out of frustration and boredom despite having safe chew toys in with her, but I never had the heart to leave her without comfortable bedding. We gradually built up to doing away with the crate. She was older than your pup, but you could still try putting her in a kitchen or bathroom with easily cleanable floors (and just tell yourself that something may get chewed up, and prepare for that so you aren't mad...best case scenario is that it works out better for you...worse case...your door is chewed to bits when you get home
When I mentioned a trainer before, I'm not about trainers coming and doing the job for you, but many will come and basically "train you" to train your dog. They help you do the job, rather than doing it for you. Most classes you take are also you giving all the commands so you are building the bond and connection with your dog, but you have the advice of someone near by should you need it. The socialization is great too.
We're all still rooting for you! We know you guys want sleep, and peace, and a great dog! |
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gadawgsfan
SH
Posts:56
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| 02/15/2013 12:22 PM |
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very few accidents in the home out of the crate,she will let you know when she has to go out,that part has been good,though she does go numerous times,
she stays in the two rooms with us when we are at home and we are constantly playing fetch with toys or teaching her something new. it truly is amazing how smart she is and how quick she learns something new,if i could just get her to learn to not pee in the crate,jump on people or sleep all night,it would be AMAZING!! LOL.It only took six or seven times of teaching me and her to stop darting out of the crate and to wait until we give the command to start eating she learns it so fast, but when I leave her in the crate and so NO POTTY she does not get that yet.(joking) maybe i should try that!
we have her bed still in there along with a towel to absorb the pee,instead of her bed. we tried two times last week with nothing and when we come in she gets really excited and starts going crazy and all she is doing is getting the pee all over her at that point,we wait until she calms down to get her ,by then its all over her feet which winds up on the carpet.i have not put the divider in to shrink the size due to the fact i think its in storage and i will get it this weekend
so we took a few steps back the last couple nights she has started waking up at 3 to 4 again,so Im back solo in the bed sleeping and the wife is solo on the couch.
we are still hanging in there.
Also I noticed yesterday as we were working on a few things outside,she needed to potty so we went to the are she likes and she peed and pooped,well I noticed as she was pooping a few drips had fallen to the ground fro her peeing so i looked really close when she was finished and it was really thick alomst like condensed milk consistancy and color,so would that be a sign of something?
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3155
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| 02/15/2013 1:05 PM |
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if the potty is milky something is off... could be urine infection... when you go to the vet take a urine sample...
when she gets up at night and you take her out... does she go back to bed? Cuz if she gets up goes out and then goes right back to sleep, I really don't think it is a big deal as far as sleep loose... also I know you mention that you get her to go pretty much all night and now she is back to waking up early so your wife has moved out of the room again... I am not sure she should keep leaving and coming back, by doing that she is messing up the dogs routine... I know she isn't leaving int he middle of the night, but the dog gets used to her not being there at night and then she starts sleeping there again it is a difference the dog will notice...
They are smart! She probably knows she shouldn't potty in the cage, but if it is anxiety she can not control it and you need to work on her getting comfortable in the cage... |
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gadawgsfan
SH
Posts:56
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| 02/17/2013 6:57 PM |
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perfect example, last night i took her out to potty and then we went to sleep at 11:00, she woke up at 2:15 and barked for several minutes, so i got up took her out and then back to the crate, she whined and barked for 30 minutes or so and back to sleep,awake again at 4:20 whinning and barking,we just let her keep it up and did not get up with her until we just could not take it anymore,i got up with her at 5:00 and was up with her for about 15 minutes and crated her again she went to sleep and started again at 6:30.she peed each time she went out,we also have been taking water away at 8:00 p.m.
maybe wednesday the vet can tell me something, do they have sleeping pills for GSP's. LOL |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1217
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| 02/17/2013 7:15 PM |
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My guess is she is crying each time she awakes during the night due to anxiety, and has learned that she gets some relief from crying. It would take many more consistent nights of attempting to ignore it for her to re-learn that she does not get relief from crying. Honestly, at your dog's age...if she has always been crated she should be used to it at night. It may be worth your sanity to try not crating her. Bella started sleeping with us at about 8 months of age. We did away completely with her crate at 10 months. She does much better during the day out of it, and I have much more peace of mind. It doesn't work for everyone...but neither does crating. Dog by dog. Hope you can get her into the vet soon as well to make sure there isn't any evil culprits at play. If I let Bella out every hour and told her to potty she would do it to appease me if she needed to or not. |
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gadawgsfan
SH
Posts:56
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| 02/18/2013 12:53 PM |
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if it is anxiety, what is my next step. we have even tried leaving her in our bathroom which is a really nice size and she still pees andwhines in there,so seperation verses craate anxiety,huh.
It is probably something we have done along the way to create this anxiety issue.
Vet appointment is wed at 10:30 to rule out anything, which at this point I almost hope they find something in a way,that would answer alot of questions. I know that sounds cruel and I dont want her to be sick but this whole thing is crazy and getting really tiresome.
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