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Subject: Update on the Kaido/Jamie drama
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gsploverUser is Offline
Houston, Tx.
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11/07/2012 1:22 PM  

I am very pleased to report, that while strict monitoring remains, and will remain indefinitely,  Jamie is back to her normal self.  Physical wounds, though a couple still remain open, are healing well, and Jamie's psychological wounds have healed as well.  She goes outside when the big dogs do, though I correct her when she attempts to chase them.  The other day the two were running full speed side by side, and Jamie just ran up in front of them and gave them a what for, growling and barking.  I corrected her, they ignored her, and she hasn't tried to intervene since.   She is a herder by nature.....Aussie /Brittany mix.    Kaido is acting like nothing ever happened, and pays her no attention at all.  He used to stan over top of her, and she would stand under him growling lightly and chewing his muzzle.  He would then walk off.     He no longer does this because we correct it instead of allowing Jamie to correct it.   When she or Kaido initiate a chase game,  I intervene, as large and small dog, just don't mix and it's a recipe for disaster.   Both  littermates, Kaido and Maybrie are in training, mind you for no charge, compliments of the breeder, for 2 1/2 hours each week.   They had their first session yesterday, and though they minded, it is quite clear that, while Kaido  appears soft, or wounded even when corrected, he has a mind of his own, pouts, and even butters up to try to get his way......I definitely have more "pack leader" practicing to do.   I catered to his pouting and thought I was over correcting.   This was not the case.  The breeder/trainer is helping me see this.   It is also helpful to see how each dog is different and responds differently to correction, and that pouting should never be tolerated.   If I am not harming the dog, I must remain firm and assertive, and in control.  Kaido is quite trainable, and has shown no aggression to anyone, nor to Jamie or Maybrie.   I may never know what caused that ONE incident, because I will never allow a situation to arise again that may cause an incident......ie, unattended 35 pound smaller dog to be left alone with two littermate 50 and 75 pound dogs.    Until they understand my role, they are separated and not allowed to play.    Once they gain the kind of respect for me as their pack leader, I will be able to allow them to play, and will be able to control the play when it gets too rough.  As of now, they both ignore me and even run from me when I try to intervene.    Though they were separated from the time they were 4 months till they were 7 months, they still have a strong bond.   Maybrie is more independent and could care less if Kaido is there or not.  Kaido prefers his companion, as he is just naturally more cautious about his world around him. He needs to trust that I will protect him, not Maybrie.  As for play, I look forward to the day they will play together again.  However, they need to know that I, their pack leader control when and how hard they play.  I  truly look forward to the day when they can run freely as littermates again, but until I know that I have 100% control of them as individual pups, I will not be able to control them together.     I need to thank each and everyone of you that commented, as it has TRULY helped me step up.......I truly thought I was a strog pack leader, however, after day 1 at class, it is clear, Kaido has the upper hand in attempting to manipulate with his "cuteness."  He is really very good at being cute!  

Jamie is also in training.  She is being corrected for her corrective snarls and growls that used to be "cute."  I know I should be shot for saying that, as NO GROWLING is EVER CUTE.  I just thought she was correcting them, and no harm would ever come.  I think in many ways, we created a monster with Jamie and that WE are to blame for what happened.   Jamie was a rescue, and she was VERY sick and frail when we got her.  She is a double white merle Aussie mix and had H.O.D. or Hyperosteodystrophy, an inflammation of the joints caused by vaccination or poor breeding per the vet.   We spent 3000 on her trying to get her better and find out exactly what was wrong with her.  She showed us her loyalty by staying by our side 150% of the time.  She followed us from room to room, a true "companion" dog.  That was her role that she took.   Though never allowed on our bed, she does help herself to the couch, though she is never possesive, and jumps off immediately when told, "Off."   No problems with possiveness of food or bones either, except with other dogs, but she just growls low and light and they get the idea.   I never corrected that because I thought it was okay and she was just speaking doggy language to them.   However,  I truly believe that her "cuteness" got her in a heap of trouble.  Growling, (though her growling wasn't vicious) is NEVER cute, and should never be tolerated......I know this now. I also believe, as others on this forum have said, if Kaido had wanted to kill Jamie, he would have.   She has several bites, but 99% of them were to her haunches, legs, and lower back.  One was on her right shoulder, and one small nick was on the nape of her neck.  The largest open gashes were on her haunches.  Will I EVER allow unsupervised play between the two or 3 of them.....NEVER, ABSOLUTELY NEVER.  It's like leaving a toddler outside with a group of teens.  The toddler is bound to get trampled.  I can't believe I did it to begin with.     

Thank you guys so much.  I feel like a complete idiot who knows nothing about dogs, and wonder how or why in the world I ended up with 4 of them.  The fourth is our 12 year old lab who never gets involved with their antics!   She just eats and sleeps....nothing to talk about with her!   I look forward to the next 16 weeks of lessons with our trainer.  We will go through intermediate and then advanced.  Hopefully, with persistance, I will have gained more respect from them as individuals.  I have a short window to work with them......one more year.  By the time they are two, they are pretty set supposedly, though you can always teach, it becomes harder.   They are kids for a long time!!  

THANK YOU for your words of encouragement, the wake up advice, and all other....it was all taken to heart.  


"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog.
You are his life, his love, his leader.
He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart.
You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."
-- Unknown
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
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Posts:7856


11/07/2012 5:24 PM  
Sounds like you have a good plan to move forward and I truly commend you for looking at this problem and figuring out how to resolve it. Don't beat yourself up. You have recognized the problem and are working to fix it. That is more than most would do. Good luck and keep us posted. By the way, who is your breeder? Sounds like you have a good one who is helping to resolve the issue.

Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
SplatUser is Offline
Illinois (Northern)
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Posts:3136


11/08/2012 5:38 AM  
So glad to hear your breeder is willing to help without cost, that shows decent commitment to the breeding... it does sound like there was issues with who was in charge and now that you know that you can move in the right direction... don't call yourself an idiot or be too hard on yourself... you joined this forum for info and you were open to opinions!

pixie beeUser is Offline

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Posts:4452


11/08/2012 6:56 AM  
Good to hear you have gained some control.

As far as - if he wanted to kill her he would have -

that's not really true.

He has a low defense threshold and will revert to aggression

please be careful


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
Nancy DUser is Offline
No. Lower MI - Gaylord Area
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Posts:850


11/08/2012 6:57 AM  
So glad to hear that you having everything going in a positive direction. I give you tons of credit for your actions. You knew you had a problem and took the steps to correct it. It's not going to be easy and will be time consuming, but you are committed and that's a whole lot more than a lot of dog owners would do.
gsploverUser is Offline
Houston, Tx.
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Posts:382


11/08/2012 8:13 AM  

 Thanks so much everyone, for all your support.  It truly helps. Yes, I know we have a very long road ahead, but having this forum to turn to possibly saved Kaido....YOU gave me the  advice I needed to truly search my heart and mind for the BEST option for Kaido and our other dogs.  You gave me the courage to act, and even the permission to be less than perfect as pack leader!!    I promise I will get there!!  Pixie Bee, thanks for keeping us in your thoughts and maintaining vigil over  the possible upcoming dangers we could face with aggression.......The future is painted with unfamiliar territory, but I am thankful that I am not making this journey on my own.  What a great  group of people....a special group of GSP lovers!   


"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog.
You are his life, his love, his leader.
He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart.
You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."
-- Unknown
MarieUser is Offline
Wisconsin
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MH
Posts:2721


11/11/2012 12:25 PM  

So happy training is going well with all dogs. Kaido and Jamie can go out together again with your supervision. Four dogs is a big challenge to keep happy. Your Lab sounds like a real Senior Honey at 12 years old. What kind of a Lab do you have, Chocolate, Yellow or Black.?? I think it is so cool Labs come in 3 different colors. I am glad the Lab is no problem and you just have to train the other three. Best Wishes and I am so happy you are keeping Kaido.


Marie and Rocky, a tall, high energy GSP
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab18/Annette_Merryfield/100_0285.jpg?t=1287205231
weerubbertummyUser is Offline
Ayrshire, Scotland
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Posts:726


11/11/2012 12:42 PM  

If only all dog owners were like you!!! That's a serious amount of committment, patience, courage and integrity you've shown in how you've dealt with all of this - they are VERY lucky to have you  


Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx
smatulewiczUser is Offline
Michigan
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Posts:1197


11/11/2012 1:34 PM  
Kudos for taking control and doing what most of us don't want to do in realizing we may be at fault for something lol. As far as blaming yourself for letting Jaime correct Kaido when he would stand over her, don't beat yourself up there. I honestly doubt I would have corrected something like that because I believe that dogs are going to sort certain things out with themselves, and as long as it isn't a risk to anyone (or escalate further it unfortunately eventually did for you), I allow dogs to sort who is who amongst themselves. I hope for nothing but positive changes with the steps you are taking...Super awesome of you to take those measures rather than looking at them as too much to bother with. Really proud of you!!
gsploverUser is Offline
Houston, Tx.
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Posts:382


11/16/2012 12:20 AM  

Marie, you asked about our lab.  We have a 12 year old, almost 13!  She is amazing.  We had a chocolate lab who passed away in January with stomach cancer.  She is missed daily.   Labs are amazing!  GSP's are too...very different from labs, but I wouldn't trade this experience for anything...other than having Abby back in my arms again....next to my GSP's!  Yes, I am glad the lab is trained already!  She just stays out of everyone's way!

 


"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog.
You are his life, his love, his leader.
He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart.
You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."
-- Unknown
gsploverUser is Offline
Houston, Tx.
MH
MH
Posts:382


11/16/2012 12:24 AM  

Thank you everyone!  Training is going amazingly well. I am truly impressed.  We are learning to be better pack leaders, and Kaido is learning that he's not the pack leader!  He has had several moments of pouting and sucking up, but he's quickly getting the idea!  I will keep you posted, and send a video of our newly learned stunts!

Jamie is doing much better now.  All the physical wounds are healing well, and there is no sign of infection. I'm so grateful.   Now it just looks like she got into a fight with a lawn mower! 


"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog.
You are his life, his love, his leader.
He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart.
You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."
-- Unknown
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Forums > General > General Discussion > Update on the Kaido/Jamie drama



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