|
| Author |
Messages |
|
mjbuck Hancock, MI
 MH Posts:144


 |
| 07/03/2012 5:59 PM |
|
Again, a question about a dog's behavior. If you tell your dog to sit and stay, how long would the dog obey if you gave her no other commands or a signal to break from that? For example, we were sitting on our deck with some people and my dog was zipping around back and forth. Finally, I got tired of this and commanded her to sit and stay (next to me). This lasted about ten seconds and as soon as I turned my attention away from her, off she went again. Over and over. When on heel, should your dog have to be told "heel" every five seconds or so to keep her there? My dog is two years old now and distracted by everything and her ability to listen to commands, etc., is suffering. While she knows the commands, she does not obey for long. My wife says she has ADD, as she claims I have (might be some truth there for me anyway). |
|
|
|
|
Smylinacha Connecticut
 MH Posts:1208


 |
| 07/03/2012 6:30 PM |
|
For their dinner I can get them to sit and stay, put the bowl down and walk away and they still hold position but outdoors I have trouble...... easily distracted and prey driven. Winsdor is 3 and Velvet will be 8. Both rescues not gotten as pups. |
|
|
|
|
smatulewicz Michigan
 MH Posts:1216


 |
| 07/03/2012 6:53 PM |
|
With the Stay, I have been building Bella's tolerance to it gradually. It is rare I command her to stay in one spot (except when training in which her stay is just seconds or minutes). I do, however, tell her to stay on the deck if I'm on the deck. She will either settle with a chew toy or stand on the stairs watching the neighborhood or looking out for chippies. On a few occassions, a chippie as taunted and gotten the best of her. She will dart, but realize she broke "deck" command and come right back. I know it seems a pain in the patoot. But if she breaks a stay command, don't even bother with recall because then in my opinion you're putting a new command in front of the broken command. I would just go and get her by the collar and quietly walk her to the exact spot she was in a stay and gently put her back in the sit or down or whatever stay you had her in. It may take a few times but she should start to realize you mean business. Sometimes us chasing after or making a fuss over the broken command is a fun game for them. But I think the quiet reinforcement is boring and they get that it isn't a game quickly. With heel...I am still working with Bella. So I do repeat the command throughout a walk. If she pulls ahead, I either stop in my tracks and she backs up to get back in her spot (she knows the spot to be, she can barely stand staying there) or I say "ah ah" and repeat my heel command. It also isn't the best method I'm sure, but it works...if she pulls ahead a bit I lightly grab the loose skin on her neck and pull back a little. It's simply an annoyance for her...so she gets it. Keep being consistent and meaning business. Even if she has learned she can get away with things, that doesn't mean she can't learn that you now don't intend to let her. She loves you and should still have desire to please you. |
|
|
|
|
pixie bee
 MH Posts:4474


 |
| 07/03/2012 7:16 PM |
|
Very,very good questions!!! Where is the LIKE button? How long a dog holds a command depends on the level the dog is at. The goal is to have a dog perform a command quickly,correctly and until told otherwise. There can be several reasons they don't. The most common, that I have seen, is that the dog knows the 'commander' will not enforce the command after a certain amount of time has elapsed. Another popluar reason is b/c the dog doesn't want to and would rather wear us down thru attrition. Smart,eh? Training to high standards takes time and effort. Your dog does not have ADD and is distracted b/c you are unable to keep her attention. We need to keep our dogs 'thinking' about the command we gave. The moment they slack is the moment we lost their attention. We need to pay closer attention so we can bring their attention back. Over time, they will have a longer attention span. FWIW, I believe dogs can read us very well and know exactly when our attention in training has been distracted. food for thought |
|
"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
|
|
|
weerubbertummy Ayrshire, Scotland
 MH Posts:730


 |
| 07/04/2012 4:48 AM |
|
"FWIW, I believe dogs can read us very well and know exactly when our attention in training has been distracted.
food for thought" - Pixie Bee
I only have 3 years experience training gsps so dont really feel i can give advice as such, but i really wanted to jump in and back up what Pixie Bee says at the end of her post with my recent experience with Keely after reading a book about dogs picking up on your energy.
It basically expands on the thinking behind the fact that dogs pick up on your emotions and energy. For a long time some of the training i was doing was motivated by me/us being sick of being pulled, jerked around, jumped on, etc and although it made me train consistently the only times either dog really excelled was when i felt really positive, patient and determined, and not because i was fed up with her bad habits - they can definately tell the difference between different motivations.
There were many times i told myself that i was going to approach it in the above way, but really deep down i was just going through the motions and was actually really feeling negative, dejected, and my mind was maybe somewhere else, and those training sessions were a waste of time (and probably set us back too).
This morning i took her for a leash walk along the road which can be problematic as she is still a little scared of vehicles and sometimes lunges whilst they're passing. I saw a stationary flat bed truck parked on the verge outside the stud farmers house and where Keely would usually start jumping around and backing away, i started (unintentionally) thinking about how nice it would be to be able to walk her without those things being a problem and remained calm and determined, and deep down i knew it wouldnt always be a problem and we both walked past without any problems. On the return, i met the stud farmer at the truck and as he began talking to me and because i had to stop i felt uncomfortable because of how i thought she would react to stopping at the truck, and sure enough she started crawling under a hedge - my fault. The trouble i had coaxing her out without reinforcing her actions 
It's only since i've been aiming to introduce Keely to hpr activites and have something to aim for and can visualise her and me benefitting from it that the training has taken on a whole new meaning - it's working because i'm excited about what we're hoping to do, not because i'm thinking about preventing bad experiences all the time. Sorry for the long rambling post, but i definately find that being honest about how i feel and then planning training accordingly definately helps! |
|
Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
|
|
Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7922


 |
| 07/04/2012 11:25 AM |
|
First, I think you are expecting way too much of a 2 YO shorthair to sit and stay with all those distractions. That coupled with the fact that you were not paying attention, well shorthairs are opportunistic stinkers. Don't blame her, it is your fault as the handler. You set her up to fail and she did. Next time either put her in a crate or on a leash. Problem easily solved. I don't even expect by older well trained competition obedience dogs to sit indefinitely. They can sit for long periods (30 minutes or so) with distractions if I ask them too, the youngest is 4YO and the other two are 7 YO and 9 YO. My 1.5 YO is no where near able to do a very long sit or down. Also, when I do that I am still paying attention to them and I correct them if they mess up. Don't ever give a command if you are not in a position to correct. All that will accomplish is adding a behavior you later have to fix.
As for heeling, I do not expect my dogs to heel except in competition. However, I do expect them to walk on a loose leash even without a command. I train heeling and loose leash walking as 2 distinct things. The secret is starting out with a loose leash and never letting that leash get tight. Stop or pop the leash whenever it gets tight. I also add in the command easy. It is amazing how fast they learn the length of the leash. I often use a 24 foot flexi with my young dogs and they will run around and have fun, but as they approach the end length they slow down and never pull me. It can be done, but you have to always be consistent and never let up, even when they get older. Training is for life and just like us dogs need refreshers every once in a while. |
|
Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
|
|
Smylinacha Connecticut
 MH Posts:1208


 |
| 07/04/2012 11:38 AM |
|
| Boy I always learn good stuff in here. Yup - my two will be little angels in the house because there are no distractions - they are focusing on Me or my Hubby. Outside is where it is so tricky - so much to be distracted with and they like every living creature that moves. This is where I need to mean business - outside - gotta keep them focused on the command I give them - which is very hard to do. If they are out running around in the yard and I go to the door and say Cookie - they know time to come in and get a biscuit and they will both stay, as I tell them to sit before they come in. And sit and stay before they go out. But if they are sitting and a bug goes by, they hear a cat screech or a deer running around, the turn right around and go back to running in the yard and I have to start all over again! |
|
|
|
|
Rose
 MH Posts:362

 |
| 07/04/2012 2:56 PM |
|
If you tell your dog to sit and stay, how long would the dog obey if you gave her no other commands or a signal to break from that?
As long as I am looking/focused at him & there to correct. We've worked this up to about 5 minutes. But once we're not there to enforce....he's up!
We've been working on wait/stay while having our backs turned and with greater distractions - usually with the other person beside the dog to correct. Example exercise we do is having the other person knock on the door outside while dog is in a stay, or enforcing a stay after the door knock. Squirrels in the neighborhood have also been working as a great training tool for us (enforcing various commands while in front of a squirrel).
My understanding is that it's common for them to test us around the 1.5 to 2 age. And for the rest of their life. LOL
When on heel, should your dog have to be told "heel" every five seconds or so to keep her there?
Right now we work on a focused heel in very short 1 to 2 minute sessions. I say the command once, if he breaks out of position or loses eye contact, I use "ah ah." Usually body position alone(left hand behind back, looking down at dog) is enough to signal the heel command - I am trying to avoid too many verbal commands. Like TB, I train heel and loose leash walking as different things.
This is my ultimate goal for heeling (or at least half of, LOL):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em57CqUZ2bE
Like PB has said, by raising the bar and expectations, we have gotten more out of our dog.
|
|
|
|
|
Splat Illinois (Northern)
 MH Posts:3154


 |
| 07/08/2012 7:16 AM |
|
I can't really comment on the heal part cuz we have not trained that to where I expect mine to do it we use prong collars to just get a loose leash no pulling walk and that works for us... my dogs stays are pretty good... not sure I could be at a backyard party and tell mine to sit stay and they would stay the whole time unless I was right there looking at them... however I know I can put them in a sit stay in the backyard and walk to the front, get the mail and come back and they will be still sitting... I put them in sit stays next to the barn and then i go into the barn and give grain to my horse and they are still there even with me being out of site and busy... but if it took more than 5 minutes I am sure they would get bored and get up.... the other day I had gotten their breakfast and set them in sit stays put their bowls down, my husband distracted me so I was helping him, I forgot I was feeding the dogs so I went and got dressed, came out and the dogs were still sitting and waiting to be told to eat! I felt really bad that I made them do that  |
|
 |
|
|
smatulewicz Michigan
 MH Posts:1216


 |
| 07/08/2012 7:43 AM |
|
Splat, I had to laugh at the last part of your post. I did a similar thing with Bella. She requires permission to go up or down the stairs at our house. I usually go up first and then call "ok" behind me so we aren't competing for the same stairs going up. One time I was carrying up a bunch of laundry and she was sitting and waiting at the bottom. I took the laundry to the backroom and got busy putting it away and all of sudden wondered...where the heck is the dog? So I went to look for her and bless her heart she was sitting just looking SO sad at the bottom of the stairs waiting for the OK to come up. I felt so bad  |
|
|
|
|
|
| You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
|
|
ActiveForums 3.7
|
You must be logged in to use this module.
|