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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 01/30/2012 11:35 AM |
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This morning I was walking Haiko and decided to let him off the leash. He saw a dog and ran over to him,of course I am in the wrong b/c there is a leash law and Haiko is being disobedient.
I have spoken with this owner several times before this. he has a rescue pit that he got around 5 months old and the dog is now a little over a year. This man is terrified that his dog will be aggressive. Whenever they see other dogs he stops and he and his dog watch the other dogs until they are out of sight - of course his dog gets growly and appears to be aggressive.
I have told this guy an several occassions that his dog is not aggressive - he wants to meet and greet and is being prevented from doing so.I have told him how great I think his dog is (and he is a great dog) and made suggestions as to how to approach the training. He is not interested and is content to have his dog live on a leash for its entire life,never to run and the worst to never experiencing another dog's companionship.
Such a heartbreak.
This man has a great insecurity and fear about his dog which he is comunicating toward his dog.
So, back at the ranch -
his dog was fine with Haiko coming over and was fine even when his owner was panicking. His dog lost it when the owner began to loose it even more. The dog began to freak out.
Haiko is a dog that has a great understanding of other dogs and knew that this dog was not intending to be aggressive - he just knew it and he was correct.Haiko sensed the unstablness of the situation and only wanted to meet and greet - he felt no fear and was not sending fear,aggression or dominant signals.
My take on it - if he would have just let the flexi leash reel out the dogs would have had a great time together and the begining of loosing the fear - for him and his dog.
A great opportunity was presented and was lost
He become irrate that Haiko was off leash and began to curse me out. I was considerate that he was emotional and reacting on that but then I lost it b/c he was looking to "get me" and well, he did. I responded harshly - but with the truth about him and his dog.
Anyways -
I'm upset with the way things turned out and I feel bad for the dog. He's a really nice pit.
I wish I could do something to help the dog and owner.
It's like leading a horse to water - you can't make them drink.
So, that was my morning.
Not a good one.
Coffee was good tho.
Fancine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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everbell
Kanata, ON
MH
Posts:3166
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| 01/30/2012 11:58 AM |
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| Francine, it's the same way I feel when little dog owners pick their dogs up when Bo approaches. Yes, he's a big dog but picking your dog up makes the situation escalate. I rarely feel the dogs are at fault. I always look at the owner before deciding whether I want to let Bo approach. |
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Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures |
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vnrose53
MH
Posts:379
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| 01/30/2012 12:13 PM |
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I have to say that when I see an unleashed dog approaching and mine are on leash, I try to get away--I do not trust all other owners to have only "balanced" dogs off leash! I am all for allowing my dogs to "meet and greet" but for safety I much prefer that all the participants be under control.
Nor do I feel that my dogs are living blighted lives because they are rarely off leash (except in the fairly large back yard). |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7846
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| 01/30/2012 12:31 PM |
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| This a tough one and I have mixed feelings. I understand the mans perspective because everyone is so hyper focused on pits because they are and "at risk" breed. We in the dog world know that is not true, but I bet this man has gotten an earful before and is not overly cautious. He just is afraid his dog will do something and so can't relax. I take my dogs to an off leash area and have been on the receiving end of another dog running up to mine that was not under the owners control. It can be scary. I still walk mine off leash, but when I hear or see another party coming up the trail I call my dogs back in and make them sit which seems to work pretty good. If the approaching dogs and owners are ok with it, I will release my dogs to play. If one of my pups isn't ready for that level of discipline off leash in this particular area I keep them on a flexi. Of course, I have had someone curse me out for having my dog on a flexi too because he thought they were dangerous. So, you just do the best you can and move on. Shame the gentlemen (especially since he had seen you guys before) didn't seize the opportunity. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 01/30/2012 12:43 PM |
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That's a good point.
Ya see,
when they walked onto the path - they saw us. Instead of turning left he could have turned right(it would have made no difference in his walk - I see them walking in all the directions). Instead - he chose to stand there and watch us.
I too, avoid dogs. It's common in communities with dogs.
If he has an insecurity or fears he should have avoided. Did he really believe a unleashed dog was not going to run over to them?,just standing there will be seen as an invitation by a dog.
It took Haiko several seconds to get there, (he was loping)the guy didn't attempt to leave. If he would have he would have been out of sight and my bet is Haiko would have not pursued them.
I take full responsibility for my dog.
Having a backyard is great - this dog doesn't have one.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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tgatto
Lake in the Hills, IL
MH
Posts:411
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| 01/30/2012 12:45 PM |
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| YUP! That about explains it Francine. Now you know why I walk my dogs in the wee hours of morning, and night while in suburbia! We (those of us who train without attaching a leash - YIKES!) are the bad people who allow our dogs to run "out of control". People can't tell the difference between a well-socialized, obedient dog off a leash, and an out-of-control beast having their way... Say nothing of the fact that the dogs appreciate the freedom, understand the liberty we give, AND (above all) thrive upon our trust in them... but, THAT'S NOT THE POINT! WE NEED STRICTER ENFORCEMENT OF LEASH LAWS!!! or, maybe, just a better understanding of our pets... I do the same as Texas Belle - come-in whistle, and sit at heel - use the leash if the people seem uncomfortable. |
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It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when they pick-up, and deilver to hand a bird that they pointed, and you shot. - Todd |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 01/30/2012 1:28 PM |
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I see this man almost on a daily basis and we are always cordial.He has talked with me when I have my dogs with me.My dogs know him. Which my guess may have been the problem.
If I see him with his dog and I am with one of mine - I avoid. if he sees me with my dogs and he has his - he does not avoid.
He sees I'm in the field, why enter with your dog? I always leave or avoid the field for him. I did not see him there today - if I would have seen him standing there I would have hooked Haiko up and left - like I always do.
My guess is he thought I would see him and leave.
He sees me train my dogs in this field,seen my dogs play with other dogs in this field and seen me walk in this field with the dogs on lead.
Yep, I'll still have them off leash - I'm a problem in the community
but from now on I will have the ecollar on - it's out for repair.
Nothing like a "reach out and touch someone"moment.
Oh, I'm not talking anything harsh - just a reminder that HERE really does mean HERE
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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weerubbertummy
Ayrshire, Scotland
MH
Posts:726
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| 01/30/2012 1:54 PM |
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I think it really comes down to how well people understand dog behaviour, esp when there are supposed "dangerous" dogs in the situation. Maybe the owner is over-sensitive to other dogs being off leash approaching as he feels he doesnt have control over his dog and that a situation may arise.
To be honest most dog owners are probably not as educated in dog behaviour as yourself, i know that i didnt feel confident in many situations with Kintra, and my level of knowledge is probably representative of the majority of dog owners, and thats why the leash laws exist (i have spent a lot of time studying dog behaviour but dont have the experience). I'm sorry for the situation, and especially for you because your intentions are honourable (sounds like the guy is being a little defensive, to say the least), but kinda sounds like the law is there to protect everybody/everydog, inc you and yours. It's such a shame because it would be lovely to have that freedom. |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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Legallyblonde
Otsego MI
MH
Posts:244
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| 01/30/2012 3:18 PM |
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That's too bad Francine. He could have benefitted from at least listening to what you had to say. Personally, I think dogs tend to react better with each other without leashes, and I think in this situation in particular. It sounds as if the man is sending nothing but tension down the lead to this dog, and is in essence teaching him to tense up and be worried and defensive when new dogs approach. It's an incident waiting to happen. It's THE OWNER that sends the bad signals down the lead; hence my reason for thinking dogs react worse on the lead than off.
I'm sure he has good intentions, but weerubbertummy is right, the majority of pet dog owners have little to no understanding of dog behavior and don't realize they are at fault for many bad behaviors : ( |
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UWPCH CA GSJCH USUVCH Boogerman Loverboy Oskar TDI CGC
SHR UWP CH Abbe Lane's Prince of Darkness TAN NA-I RBIMBS |
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tgatto
Lake in the Hills, IL
MH
Posts:411
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| 01/30/2012 3:40 PM |
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| Yeah. I too have seen dogs act very defensively when on a leash. Whether it is in response to the feelings of the owner or not, I don't question. I just know better than to allow Sadie to approach a dog that is already on a leash (I can legally walk her without a leash at my parent's place in SW Michigan). My cousin's dogs are prototypical of this behavior. Whenever they are on a leash, we stay away - DANGER! When they are off, it is a different story - dogs get along GREAT! |
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It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when they pick-up, and deilver to hand a bird that they pointed, and you shot. - Todd |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 01/30/2012 4:52 PM |
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Thanks everyone for the input.
When I see dogs off leash approaching us I immediately unhook my dogs,when we are going to pas a dog I think will be a problem I unhook my dogs and we walk at heel. If the dog appears to be friendly - which has usually been the case I allow them to meet/greet/play.
Yesterday Haiko was playing with a pit,come to think of it, this pit and the pit from today really look alike,anyway the pit is just under a year, they were both off leash, with Rocco the Boxer, and the pit was being very dominant to Haiko. Haiko couldn't care less. People tend to get worried when there is vocalization. The majority of the time vocalizing is Ok.
Dog behavior can appear unfriendly if your not familiar with it. And sometimes dogs need to be put in a time out.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 01/30/2012 4:55 PM |
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I too believe that almost all poor behavior is caused by humans.
Either thru the leash or our expressions and movements.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Smylinacha
Connecticut
MH
Posts:1208
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| 01/30/2012 7:04 PM |
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| My two dogs love to meet and greet and we do it on walks in the neighborhood because there are a lot of dogs but they are all on leash because in the burbs it's a law here and there are no fields unless we go to the dog park and I won't go there anymore. Velvet is good and I think trustworthy at staying with us off leash - Windsor - no way but like you said, it's up to humans and how we train them. and we need to work with him more. We were walking the dogs on a conservation trail (had to be leashed because many people jog and other dogs are walked on this trail). We came up to a couple with a gorgeous slate gray pit and as we were approaching the couple got nervous and put the prong collar on their dog who looked pretty excited but not in a mean way. Our dogs wanted to meet and greet but they skirted by us fast. But if I were the old man, I would have listened to you if I saw a person who was calm and confident with his or her dog. But the couple we ran into wasn't. Sorry it turned out that way and the man was mean. You work with your dogs all the time and you give great advice on here - maybe someday that man will listen to ya |
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weerubbertummy
Ayrshire, Scotland
MH
Posts:726
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| 01/31/2012 2:20 AM |
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There's talk over here of introducing a dog owner license and its causing a lot of controversy - probably because the money paid for such a license would disappear into the governments black hole budget. I personally think we should give a canine charity legislative powers and allow them to take control of licensing and benefit from the money.
Sorry, getting off subject here. I know some baddies would slip through the net but i think applying for license (at a low cost) and being made to actually sit a test/exam for dog ownership would give people at least a base understanding of training and behaviour, not to mention giving a realistic idea of the cost and responsibilities of owning a dog.
We're made to sit a test to drive because a car can turn into a lethal weapon in the wrong (or inexperienced) hands, well, as far as i'm concerned the same applies to dogs.
I've lived with dogs all my life and feel comfortable with them, yet when we got Kintra she went to work with my other half and so we had difficulty in consistently training her to NOT jump up at people. Long story short, this in turn meant that we were nervous letting her off leash around people in parks, this in turn meant that being off-leash around new dogs was a novelty to her, this in turn made her over-excited, and in turn made me nervous, which made her even more excitable. One thing i definately learned is to prioritise training the dog over causing offence (eg asking someone to ignore the pup when it jumps up).
Sorry for the long post, but i think even people who understand dogs to a certain extent and have some experience (ie me) have difficulty putting the knowledge into practice in the real world, and it really shows how a simple slip in training can really cause problems for the dog and owner later on. |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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Rose
MH
Posts:362
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| 01/31/2012 9:14 AM |
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Sorry to hear about your experience PB.
I find that dogs are easy to deal with; people are difficult. |
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tgatto
Lake in the Hills, IL
MH
Posts:411
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| 02/01/2012 1:50 PM |
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Things are getting a little serious out there: news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/park-ranger-shoots-man-stun-gun-walking-dogs-182637393.html. Maybe it is time to ensure my dog is leashed all the time... Gads! |
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It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when they pick-up, and deilver to hand a bird that they pointed, and you shot. - Todd |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 02/01/2012 2:30 PM |
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Such a shame.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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gsp-fan
AZ
MH
Posts:353
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| 02/01/2012 2:55 PM |
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I do not feel sorry for the guy at all. His dogs were off leash, he gave a false name (makes me wonder why) and then he tries to leave when he is asked to stay put. Look what happened to the Park Ranger in WA that was recently killed.
I have no problem with people wanting to run their dogs in an off leash approved area but not in areas where leash laws are in effect. I can not tell you the number of times that I have been out walking my dogs on a leash and have had dogs charge us and attack my own dogs after a owner has said "Don't worry he is friendly".
I will step down off my soap box now.
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kpwlee
Raleigh, NC
MH
Posts:997
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| 02/01/2012 5:09 PM |
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Yea I am a stickler for observing leash laws too - I would love to walk Bugsy off leash (now that he is finally 'nearly' trustworthy LOL) but we don't have many places to do that legally.
He was fine with any type of dog interaction until 3 yrs ago when he was attacked by an off leash dog. long story short is after that he was leash reactive for a while - we worked through that but for a long time afterward if we were out on a trail and an off-leash (against the law) dog charged him he would go nuts. I had to just stop going on trails because of the off leash dogs. One time we were charged by SIX off leash dogs with no humans in sight. When they caught up they were like Oh they are all friendly. Sorry I have a right to walk on a narrow trail with my leashed dog without worrying about a pack of dogs coming at us.
Also - and i don't mean you PB - some people believe their dog is OK when it isn't. We've got this grumpy, intact, giant GSD in our neighborhood whose female owner always has him off leash (again against the rules) and he has more than a few times tried to take a chunk out of Bugsy's neck and pretty much growls and tongue flicks at him every meeting. I've spoken to her about it and she says - "that's just the way he says hi", um no it isn't.
i am always thankful that Bugsy is who he is because he just looks at the GSD like "dude you need to relax" or he completely ignores him
Anyway although leashes are unfortunately necessary so much of the time I believe that if the bylaws or rules say leashed only - it is our duty as responsible owners to observe those laws.
We live very near a huge lake and for 5 yrs I have taken Bugsy there to swim and have always had a floating line on him but I don't hold it. A friend with a young lab wanted to join us last summer so i was thrilled. However her 9 mo old lab didn't stay with us and ran all over. The next time I took Bugsy a worker came up and said that he had to be on leash. I queried why and they said there have been complaints about dogs running around off leash - turns out it was my friend with the young lab who had gone on her own and the dog had run up to people attempting to go out on boats etc.
After about a month the employees (who know B and I) went back to allowing us to be 'off-leash' in the water BUT if we went with the lab we had to be on leash.
And yes humans typically cause issues by being so tense and strangling dogs while they are on leash. Always makes me sad to see
I have a few places locally that he can be off leash and we go there as much as we can |
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It's Bugsy's world...
http://dailyzoomie.blogspot.com/ |
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kpwlee
Raleigh, NC
MH
Posts:997
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| 02/01/2012 5:12 PM |
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sorry also meant to say that for some people it isn't about YOUR dog - they may be aware that their dog is either not friendly or leash reactive so that when another dog enters their space they freak out.
So your off leash dog may be super friendly but it causes the person who is obeying the law problems if it upsets their dog |
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It's Bugsy's world...
http://dailyzoomie.blogspot.com/ |
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