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knightfarms
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
MH
Posts:87
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| 01/15/2012 8:30 AM |
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My husband has consented and even offered to "front the money for the first year"!!!! Meaning he's paying out of his fun money and not our household budget... So excited!!!
The funny thing is, he's very particular about coloring; coming from a man who wears a polo, jeans, and sneakers everday Our new fur kid needs to be a roan with not too much liver patch cover and a solid head.
The game I play now is field trialing and hunting, but would like a dog who can earn some show ring points....
I promise to post pictures when we find "the one" but it might not be until closer to summer depending on breedings, so don't hold your breath 
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. -Unknown |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7851
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| 01/15/2012 9:21 AM |
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I know color and markings always play in the selection of a puppy, but as a breeder I always caution folks to not let the color and markings blind you to the best dog. Case in point, I had a puppy buyer who wanted a performance and show dog from my last litter and she via pictures had picked out 2 before she flew down to evaluate and take home her puppy. Now the two she had picked out to look at were both nice puppies, but they were not my nicest male (she wanted a male). I tried everything I could think of to get her to look at what I considered my nicest male, but he was not as flashy as the other two. Finally, just before she was ready to make her final selection, I brought this boy out and put him on the ground. Within about 5 minutes, she saw what I was seeing in this boy and decided to take him even though she wasn't crazy about his coat and color. Roll the tape forward 9 months and we both are at the Nationals in Wisconsin where this puppy buyer is showing (yes, she owner handled him) this male puppy in conformation. My puppy buyer and her third choice puppy won their class at the NSS, won their class in Futurity and placed in their class in Sweepstakes. Needless to say she was very happy that week. This same boy went on to get his CH very quickly and already has several BOB wins and is well on his way to his GrCH, and is in training for his future career in the agility ring and the obedience ring.
So, I tell you this story not because I think it will change your husbands mind, but in the hopes it will get you both to open your eyes and ears to your breeder when you discuss puppies. Particularly since you want a performance dog. I believe that conformation and good balance are extremely important to performance dogs and maybe even more important than even for show dogs as performance dogs have to be able to hold up to the job they are doing. Good luck in your search! I will be watching for puppy pictures hopefully in the near future. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 01/15/2012 10:04 AM |
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I agree with TB.
You may pass up some fine dogs, may miss the boat entirely on conformation,ability,performance,temperment etc.
Esthetics is the very small picture.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3136
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| 01/15/2012 10:27 AM |
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| coming from not a show home but a pet home...I wanted a solid liver and the breeder had 2 solids and 2 white ticked...well watching the pups interact with my kids and then of course from what I saw and which my kids wanted we ended up with a white...now his confirmation isn't quality but he is the most awesome dog with my kids... |
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knightfarms
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
MH
Posts:87
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| 01/15/2012 10:50 AM |
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Let me explain myself just a bit more. I come from a horse backround, having trained and competed in the jumper and eventing world since I was a little kid. My two most successful horses were an UGLY appaloosa with a terrible coat pattern and no tail to speak of, and a squat 14.2 pony that looked like a big horse with its legs chopped down. I was never one to pick a horse based on its coat, but you can't help but have preferences.
That being said, I know and truly believe that the paint job has nothing to do with the dog which it covers. I think the more a person knows about animals and competing or companionship, the more they understand that. I'm trying to help my husband to understand that, too. He's just being a silly and stubborn boy!
I want the pup that will happily follow my kids around while they squeal like the little girls they are, and make a valiant stance against the meanest cat that ever lived who lives with us, and then plop down on the floor in front of the heat vent. And of course enjoy playing birds and running, but that's more in the breeding search than the pup at 6-8 weeks. If it's purple polka dotted, then so be it. |
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. -Unknown |
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Rose
MH
Posts:362
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| 01/15/2012 3:03 PM |
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LOL, sounds like maybe you can let him know how the ladies, and gentlemen, at the shorthairs forum feel about things, maybe that will sway him.
I agree with the views above. We have a GSP that we adopted. It's likely that the previous owner picked him on his looks (he mentioned he wanted all liver, and this was the closest to all liver he could find). He's got some gorgeous patching, but in hindsight, I'd much rather have good temperament instead of patches.
Looking forward to seeing pics! |
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Smylinacha
Connecticut
MH
Posts:1208
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revlistless
Illinois
MH
Posts:284
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| 01/17/2012 8:15 PM |
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I do have to admit that when I was looking at getting a pup I wanted was ONE roan/spotted pup with that "classic" field dog look. Now I have two solid liver and one solid black. All three are great dogs. I do love when people tell me how well behaved and good looking my Labs are....It makes me smile. My advice to your husband....look for a solid....he may end up with what he wants.
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Hummingbird Hill Manor's Adelaide
Hummingbird Hill Manor's Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds
Hummingbird Hill Manor's Fritz |
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revlistless
Illinois
MH
Posts:284
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| 01/17/2012 8:15 PM |
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Hummingbird Hill Manor's Adelaide
Hummingbird Hill Manor's Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds
Hummingbird Hill Manor's Fritz |
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revlistless
Illinois
MH
Posts:284
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| 01/17/2012 8:15 PM |
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Hummingbird Hill Manor's Adelaide
Hummingbird Hill Manor's Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds
Hummingbird Hill Manor's Fritz |
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LittleJohn
South Central, PA
Posts:9
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| 01/18/2012 7:29 AM |
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I believe that if you want a roan with a solid head, that you should keep looking until you find one that fits what you want. I disagree with all of the "well look at the dog not the color" "look at the performance, not the color" the GSP has excellent conformation, and performance in any of the colors that they come in....so that argument is unfounded.
I say get what you want....make YOU happy, not someone who you dont know and will never meet on a forum...because they dont have to feed, potty train, excercise, and be a companion to this animal....YOU do.
That's just what I think.
LittleJohn |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 01/18/2012 8:25 AM |
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if a person is only looking for pet,then yes,one can just as easily go to the pound and pick any dog that looks good to them.
Of course, this in itself is a disaster waiting to happen,as well.
The reason I feel that it is not as easy to pick by color/pattern is b/c not all GSPs have good conformation,good bite,good health,good temperment -which encompasses many,many aspects of the overall dog and quality of performance will vary greatly within the breed.Many people are interested in certain lines that are known to throw certain traits and abilities.
Sometimes what we want comes in the color we prefer,sometimes it doesn't.
Would I suggest turning away a fantastic dog b/c it is not the preferred color?
No way. A good dog has no wrong color.
Buying according to color,IMHO, will increase the possiblity of owning a dog that the owner is not so pleased with. Our choices are narrowed.
Now, I happen to agree with the husband's choice of a roan dog - but I would not let this be the deciding factor.
Especially if there is any performance required of a dog - hunting,agility,weight pulling,etc.
Even if it's just a pet, why would anyone choose a lesser dog just for color?
After all, if love is dependent on color/pattern, the dog has no chance from the get go.
Anyway, that's my 10 cents worth. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7851
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| 01/18/2012 10:00 AM |
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Pixie - I agree 100%. I have seen too many people choose because the puppy matched their color choice only to regret it for one reason or another later. With my last litter I had one boy that was very flashy and everyone of my puppy buyers that saw him wanted him and never looked at the other puppies. So, I told the puppy folks he was going to a show home even though he was only a few weeks old and there is no way you can know with certainty at that age whether or not he would be show quality. Once I did that then people actually looked at the other puppies and I was able to match a particular puppy with each of my buyers. To a person they have all told me that my choice of puppy for them was perfect. BTW the flashy boy did end up in a show home.
Color and markings are important in GSPs and I understand people have preferences, I know I do, but conformation/structure/balance are so important to a healthy and happy dog. Color/markings on the other hand have little to do with a healthy and happy dog unless you live in TX and try to hunt a darker dog in the summer (they get hot quicker which I think is why you do not see the darker dogs here as much).
My suggestion is simply to keep an open mind in your selection and don't let color blindness get in the way of picking the perfect puppy for you. And listen to your breeder because if they are doing their job right they know each and every puppy better than anyone else and will ask lots of questions and observe because a good breeders goal is always to find the perfect forever home for their puppies.
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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LittleJohn
South Central, PA
Posts:9
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| 01/19/2012 7:37 AM |
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If the breeder is doing his job then you should be able to pick a pup that matches the colors you prefer, and it should be just as good as any of the other colors.
I am not saying get that color if its cow hocked, has an overbite, narrow hips...etc....I agree with picking a quality pup, but there is no reason she cant find a nice pup with her color preference if she looks around and does her homework.
I really dont believe she should settle for anything less than exactly what she wants...and I really hope she finds it...because they are out there. |
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Rose
MH
Posts:362
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| 01/19/2012 10:38 AM |
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I think I must have ended up with a flashy one! J/K  |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 01/19/2012 11:09 AM |
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If the breeder is doing his job
Isn't that a mouthful?!
It's not easy to get solid heads and roan ain't that easy either - not a true roan.
I think revlistless hit it by saying look for a litter with solid.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7851
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| 01/19/2012 12:25 PM |
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Color and markings have nothing to do with a breeder doing a good job (except with maybe the dilute gene), and a GSP litter can produce a wide variety of markings and colorings. A breeders job is to produce sound performance and conformation dogs, do everything they can to produce healthy dogs and dogs with wonderful temperaments. I pay no attention to color or markings when picking a stud for my bitch(s) (with the exception of the dilute gene issue). I would even consider breeding to a black shorthair (even with the AKC DQ) if the dog was an exceptional stud and complimented my bitch.
Just to be clear when I say color and markings I am talking about the coloring and markings as called out in the breed standard and not some off the wall colors. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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LittleJohn
South Central, PA
Posts:9
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| 01/19/2012 1:24 PM |
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Color and markings have nothing to do with a breeder doing a good job (except with maybe the dilute gene), and a GSP litter can produce a wide variety of markings and colorings. A breeders job is to produce sound performance and conformation dogs, do everything they can to produce healthy dogs and dogs with wonderful temperaments. I pay no attention to color or markings when picking a stud for my bitch(s) (with the exception of the dilute gene issue). I would even consider breeding to a black shorthair (even with the AKC DQ) if the dog was an exceptional stud and complimented my bitch.
Just to be clear when I say color and markings I am talking about the coloring and markings as called out in the breed standard and not some off the wall colors.
It's funny how people throw up their defenses without reading the context of the post.
I dont see anywhere where anyone said that color had anything to do with a breeder doing a good job.
The comment made was implying the very same thing that you reiterated in your post. Breed for the desired traits, the traits that are the accepted standard of the breed, and let the colors be what they may. Color has nothing to do with a dogs conformation or ability...and I dont believe anyone was trying to say that is the case.
My point was that if the lady looking for a roan with a solid head....wants a roan with a solid head....then there is surely one available somewhere...if the breeder is doing his or her job then the rest of the traits in the dogs should be in line with the breed standard and should be judged before picking a dog based solely on color.
For someone to suggest that this lady accept less than what she wants in an animal that she will care for and feed for the next 15 years because of their short sighted opinions, is beyond laughable to me.
I dont believe she posted her initial post to ask for anyones permission as to what she was "allowed" to get based one someone on a forums opinion....I believe she was excited that she was able to get a new pup in the future, and she was telling us what it's going to be....and to her I say...go for it! Congrats on getting a new pup and I hope you find the one that will suit you and your family well.
LittleJohn |
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knightfarms
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
MH
Posts:87
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| 01/19/2012 2:09 PM |
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I thought I might chime in on my own post
I can agree in earnest with both sides of the coin:
1. I'm going to find a breeding that I want based on my needs. I'm an amateur who dabbles in a few different things, and would like a well-rounded dog, but don't need the highest of champion breeding because I don't have one thing that I'm set on at this point. I am in favor of supporting a breeder who does extensive health testing, has titled the dog in one or more way, and raises the dogs inside. Not to say that outside dogs, or other breedings aren't quality; it's not what I would like to support. Whatever dog I get will only be considered for breeding if it's proven exceptional in multiple aspects of competition and health testing.
2. I do not think that looking for a specific color or pattern is a bad thing. People have very controversial views on black GSP's. In my little experience in the field trials, if a GSP doesn't have a solid head, then people get to talking about whether or not it's a pointer crossed in somewhere. Whereas confirmation show folks don't seem to be so concerned about facial markings, but you don't often see a white dog strutting its stuff.
No matter what I choose, someone will have something to say about it. I don't want a solid dog. I have a black pit bull that fits that bill quite nicely. I want one with a solid head or VERY LITTLE markings... I see hundreds of them at field trials, so it can't be that hard to come by. I would like a roan or heavily ticked dog with little patching and it mostly likely should be liver (those black dogs are growing on me, though)... I see hundreds of those at dog shows. GSP's are said to be one of the breeds where the bench and show animals are not so terribly deviated as other breeds... so there's gotta be breeders making dogs that play in both arenas well due in part to their looks.
3. I think with research, patience, a very realistic budget, and some flexibility that I will find our next dog. I have found a few litters on the ground already that are great prospects, though, very far from where I live. There are a few more in the making that may or may not spit out a roan with a solid head, and I might take the chance on it. The dog will go with me everywhere and sleep on my couch until after my children graduate high school, we sure better like looking at the thing and spending time with it. |
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. -Unknown |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7851
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| 01/19/2012 2:20 PM |
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| Funny, that is not a defense, but a statement and my position. Also funny, how you are so arrogant that you believe I was responding just to you. I was not. That is my position as a breeder, owner, handler, and trainer, period. The OP can do what she wants with the information, I am simply giving my opinion, position and experience. I do not believe anyone said the OP should accept less than what she wants, and last time I checked we lived in a free country where everyone is still allowed to make their own choices and decisions. If you do not like my statement that is your choice, but don't attack me for stating my opinion based on experience. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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