Now that we've got Keely, we're back to all the decisions that have to be made with regards to house ettiquette.  We initally put Kintra in a crate in the kitchen overnight, and we lasted for 2 nights before bringing her upstairs to the bedroom.  She then slept in her open crate in the bedroom, and crept up into our bed just before the alarm off.  We were quite happy with this arrangement.  We lasted a couple of months before allowing her onto the sofa, after which she spent every evening on the sofa with us but jumped down when told.  People did remark that those above choices were wrong for reasons of dominance, the dog not knowing her place, a perceived lack of obedience (completely untrue ), and the possibility of her becoming over-reliant on our company and the subsequent possibility of separation anxiety.  She loved nothing more than sitting or lying on our laps and i am 100% sure that with Kintra it had nothing to do with dominance, although i do understand why people suggested it could be.

We would like to give Keely the same opportunities because we she is similarly affectionate (at the moment), and yes, i admit it, we just cant resist the cuddles - call us selfish

I acknowledge that all dogs are different but believe in allowing them these priveleges as long as they dont take advantage by misbehaving or dominating.  We realise that Keely may be a little bit more bold and may test us with regards to who's in charge but we're confident in being able to identify the signs and treat her accordingly.

I was just wondering what your opinions are on dominance as we had disagreements with some folks regarding allowing Kintra on the sofa etc

I thought this was a very interesting discussion on dominance, and how the term overused, check out the 3:36 mark: http://leerburg.com/flix/player.php?id=221

In my opinion, I think if it works for you, go for it. Each dog is so different. We personally don't allow our dogs on the couch on the bed because 1.I am not a fan of cleaning up after the dog hair/dirt on the couch/bed and 2.Our GSP Casey does tend to take advantage of this priviledge and starts to act up in other areas.

Thanks for the response, i just think it's a really interesting subject.  And thanks Rose for the link.  I always felt that many traits in dogs have been attributed to dominance and i think in my gut i never really agreed with it 100% but never had the clout to argue with other people more experienced in training dogs.  The dominance thing just didnt add up for me in many instances.

Because Kintra liked to cuddle on the sofa with us and sit on our laps trying to cuddle, it was often suggested that she was trying to dominate and we found this quite offensive as we put a lot of time and thought into making her obedient, as well as a true member of our wee family.

I'll definately be looking into Michael Ellis.  I'm assuming he has written books and if anyone can recommend one i would really appreciate it

luciemckee - it sounds like you have the same relationship with your dog as we had with Kintra

pixie bee - i always really appreciate your input because you obviously have a lot of knowledge and experience. I'm especially interested in dog psychology.  I dont think dominance is a bad thing, it's vital for survival and sorting out who is who in the hierarchy as far as i'm concerned, and a really interesting subject.

I have seen dogs trying to paw down their owners, or climb over and stand over them without really interacting with them or looking at them.  To me there is a difference between that and sneakily slithering onto the sofa with head down, and going into snuggle mode when they realise that they're not being told to get down.  We spent a lot of time on the floor with Kintra when she was a pup, and her (sneaky ) transition onto the sofa seemed to us like she viewed it as an extension of the floor because she was getting the same attention and treatment on the sofa as she did on the floor.

At the end of the day, i do think they are testing us to a certain extent to see if they are getting away with it, but i dont see it as dominance when done in this way.  If its done on our terms and not the dog's, and as long as they acknowledge when we want them to get down its not a problem. 

Another area we need to decide is when to feed her.  She is being fed 3 times a day at the moment and it seems to work best feeding her before us as she's obviously not quite as hungry (although i think she would eat until she exploded ) and doesnt seem too interested in OUR food. 

A lot of people seem to think that the alpha would eat first in the pack and for that reason a dog should be fed after their people.

I clueless about this because we never gave it a thought with Kintra because she completely ignored us eating when she was a pup regardless of whether she had been fed or not, but Keely goes absolutely crazy for our food if she hasnt been fed.  We are training her to go into her bed whilst we eat and ignore her if she jumps at us any other time we have food. 

Kintra and her littermates were in a pen in a utility room outside the kitchen and saw a lot of passing traffic and activity - children, guests, family, dogs etc but wasnt exposed to people eating until we got her.  But Keely and her littermates were in the living room in a pen between the sofa and tv and i wonder if she has seen a lot of people eating food, although the breeder was really responsible and i am 100% sure that no teasing with food went on.

I'm really unsure about this one, especially because she is VERY aware of us eating! I would rather feed her before us for practical (and peaceful ) reasons.  What are your thoughts?

I feed my dogs earlier but thats just the logistics in my house lenght of day for them etc. I don't allow them in the dining room when we eat, no exceptions Down/ Stay in the adjoining room works for me. Nor do I allow begging for example when my wife or son are munching on the couch watching TV etc. Me I always eat atthe table for some reason I'm just not comfortable on the couch and I'm not much of a munch guy. They eat, and get their treats in the kitchen. Just the way it's always been. I really don't want to nor do I want my friends or family subjected to shorthair begging which usually consists of a head on your leg or table or being poked with a nose.

Texas Belle - is that Belle in the photo?  She's gorgeous, reminds me a little of Kintra.  I'm  a bit of a sucker for the nearly full liver head  

I have Bruce Fogle's book "Dog" but might treat myself to some of his others as i really like the way he thinks.  He's very logical but seems to believe a dog has a place in the family - whether it's a working dog or a pet.  I also read a piece he had written for a newspaper about grieving for a dog and it really struck a cord with me.  Another thing i'm reading just now (very short) is "On Talking Terms with Dogs - Calming Signals" which is full of lightbulb moments (for me anyway)! I cant remember the name of the woman who wrote it though.

I think we'll maybe stick to feeding Keely before us while she is so young.  At least that might make it a little easier to teach the "bed" command for whilst we're eating.  Then i suppose we could see how she reacts as she gets a little older.  We have the same problem in that our routine is all over the place at times - especially when away for weekends or holidays in the campervan - fixed meal times and island hopping dont work (not for the humans anyway).  And admittedly, i sometimes like to prolong the human dinner-making process by slurping wine and listening to music in the kitchen  so feeding her first is probably a good idea!

I too feed mine first--also because I too like to dawdle over dinner (and breakfast), just maybe with some wine (not with breakfast)!  I think as long as the dog doesn't get the sense that you are "putting off" feeding yourself to cater to her, it wouldn't cause issues. 

Mine don't beg, although Humphrey will look wistfully at my plate--the key may be that I NEVER feed them from my plate, so they just don't really have hopes!