Smylinacha
Connecticut
MH
Posts:845
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| 10/12/2011 6:44 PM |
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Hi Everyone,
We've had Velvet a few months now. She is 6 yrs old, not fixed and we'll get her fixed but the vet told us she needs to go through a heat first and then we can fix her. She's had pups before and Windsor doesn't go near her "in that way" so we just wait for her to go in heat, if she ever does.
She's such a loveable dog but she's got a problem. She pees whenever she feels like it, in the house, doesn't give us ANY warning signals whatsoever - just squats and goes. I can tell if she has to go #2, she will sniff and go in circles so we are good with that. Windsor barks to let us know but she does NOTHING. Lou went on day shift so that leaves motherinlaw to let her and Windsor out but sometimes she's not home or she doesn't let them out in time and I don't expect her to hover over the dogs - not her responsibility. Windsor is good - never been a problem with that - he can hold it forever if he had to. She could go out and pee and an hour later she'll pee inside. I remove all water at 8 p.m. We got her to stop jumping w/ the e collar but we only use the tone because just putting it on her she cowers really bad. We think the previous owner abused her in some way. She's been checked at the vet, nothing wrong medically. Not like she pees like there is something wrong, she'll just wonder off and squat. I really need some help/suggestions as to how to stop this? Other than that she is a wonderful dog.
We've had a bad spring/summer/fall - all it does is rain and I feel terrible putting her outside in the pen in bad weather but I can't trust her in the house when we are both at work - there is a nice dog house in the pen so she does goes in there but still I feel bad - what am I gonna do in the winter when it's really cold out? She has much more room being in the pen, no way could I kennel her all day long - I don't think that is fair and plus I think she'd pee or poop in her kennel - I wouldn't put it past her.
So any advice? When I let her out and she goes I praise her to no end. And it's not like she does this every day but I'd say once a week and I just don't trust her loose inside when we aren't home and we can't keep an eye on her every waking moment.
She came to us skin and bones, and when we were at the previous owner's I saw her pee on the floor there so that should have been a red flag right there but we fell in love with her. No way would we give her up for that but it's nerve wracking. Thanks if anyone can help us out with any suggestions. |
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Marie
Wisconsin
MH
Posts:2671
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| 10/12/2011 7:55 PM |
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A brain storm Idea is to gate off a room that has a floor that can be mopped. Place thick layered towels on the floor for her to use as piddle pads, Yes , you will have a load of piddle pads once in awhile. But this is a solution for Velvet during the winter months when you cannot leave her in an outdoor kennel. Good luck. Sounds like you have done wonders with her already.  |
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Marie and Rocky, a tall, high energy GSP
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab18/Annette_Merryfield/100_0285.jpg?t=1287205231 |
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Smylinacha
Connecticut
MH
Posts:845
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| 10/12/2011 8:05 PM |
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| Well I can always lock her in the den during cold months. We do not have floor though- just small indoor/outdoor carpet. But for now, rain or shine, she'll be going outside in the pen until it gets too cold out. At least she likes it outdoors. Windsor hates the bad weather and can snooze on the couch all day but she won't. She used to do this daily and now we are down to once a week so I guess it's an improvement. Just wish she'd whine like Windsor does. |
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rebelyell
Iowa
MH
Posts:176
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| 10/12/2011 8:19 PM |
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| Just a suggestion----it is very important to make sure when you clean up where she pees, that you also get rid of the scent. A dog will go where they have went before if the scent is still there. Maybe you cant smell the urine, but she can if it has not been neutralized. |
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Jolene
-- Rebel (GSP 2010)
-- Shila (GSP 1988-2006 17 1/2 wonderful yrs )
"There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face." -Ben Williams
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Smylinacha
Connecticut
MH
Posts:845
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| 10/12/2011 8:27 PM |
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| We cleaned it as soon as she went - soaked it with Nature's miracle. She's passed out now but I'm waking her again to let her out before I go to bed. I've been reading to put her in a crate but 8 hours is way too long - I'd rather see her outside in the pen w/ the dog house. And when we get home from work and she comes in, I'll just have to watch her closely. Tonight could have been my fault. They went out as usual, then ate and then maybe I didn't let her out in time because she got very busy chewing up a bone and she peed as soon as I took the bone away because it was knawed down to nothing. So maybe I should have let her out right after taking the bone. Weird - been days where we work and I've kept her in all day with motherinlaw letting her out a couple of times and no accidents. So just have to watch her more closely I guess. To get her when she was pretty much starved (I know these dogs should be lean but this was toothpick thin), I think she didn't get the best treatment so we are overcoming that as well - she goes for her food like nobody's business - she gulps it down so fast like someone is going to steal it from her. |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:6941
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| 10/12/2011 9:09 PM |
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Potty train her just as if she was a puppy. It sounds like she is learning, but you just need to watch her and anticipate her needs. So after she eats, wakes up, plays or hasn't been outside for about an hour, put her out. Don't let her have the run of the house. Keep her with you so you can anticipate her needs. Keep praising her when she does her business outside.
As for crating for 8 hours, that is not really too long. At 6 she can hold it that long and would be fine. Although I do agree outside in her run is better if the weather permits.
She sounds like a lovely girl. How about some pictures? |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
     
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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everbell
Kanata, ON
MH
Posts:2863
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| 10/13/2011 6:03 AM |
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| When we first got Raz, she had JUST had a litter. Since she was coming from the breeder's (and used to going in and out as she liked) it took us a LOOOOONG time to get her to stop having accidents in the house. She would go to the back door and sit, quietly. And if we weren't in the room: accident. We finally figured out that we had to be on top of her all the time until she figured out how to get our attention. If she left the room, so did we. It DOES get better, it just takes awhile. |
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Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures |
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:2581
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| 10/13/2011 6:23 AM |
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I second that 8 hours is not too long in the crate...I think it is safer for your sanity and for the floors of the house and better than being outside in bad weather...
Like mentioned above go about it like she is a puppy...which means watching her like a hawk or she is in her crate...as soon as she looks like she might be thinking about wondering off to go get her outside and when she goes treat her.... |
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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2553
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2554 |
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Smylinacha
Connecticut
MH
Posts:845
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| 10/13/2011 7:11 PM |
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| So tonight I've been watching her closely. She seems to do worse when she is excited and she was such a jumper when we first got her - e collar solved that but we don't zap her. Heck, we don't even have to turn on the collar at all - just knowing she has it on, she behaves so that leads me to think the previous owners used it on her alot because she COWERS when it's on and we are getting her used to it buy making her sit instead of cower and shake and we praise her up and down so she is getting that. Making it a point to keep the e collar on her when we are home, not as jumpy, calm, does some commands and when I put her outside I am now telling her to go potty - trying to get her used to the word "potty". Been taking her out every hour and a half and she's been going. Took the water away earlier - like 6:30 and no more bones for a while. Just going to keep an eye on her at all times. She never messes when we go to sleep - by then she is passed out on the futon with Windsor. Lou puts them out at 4 a.m. when he wakes up. Not bad in the morning - I can take a shower and then let them up when I'm up by 6 since she's already gone at 4. Then by 7:30 she is out in her pen and she seems happy. I could lock her in the den in cold weather but might try the kennel once it gets bitter cold since you guys says 8 hours isn't bad. It really could be less than 8 hours but she'll have to learn to "like" her crate. My motherinlaw could easily let her out but I don't see her getting her back in it - she's old and not as agile as she used to be so I don't want to burden her with it. But I feel better knowing the crate can still help and that I'm not being cruel. She seems more tired if I put her out all day and then take her in. If I leave her in, she's more hyper at night. |
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Smylinacha
Connecticut
MH
Posts:845
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| 10/13/2011 7:20 PM |
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| Forgot to add, I will take pics but all I have is my DROID which stinks at night and I don't get home till late lately and it's dark and all I get is devil eyes on them - even in the house with the lights on. Hopefully I can take some this weekend. I just told Lou we need a "real" camera - the fun I can have with that! |
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everbell
Kanata, ON
MH
Posts:2863
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| 10/13/2011 7:29 PM |
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| Kim ... My husband goes into work 2 days a week. And on those days the dogs are sometimes in their crates for nine hours. We rarely have an issue, and when we do it's because of something they ate in the woods ... |
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Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures |
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Smylinacha
Connecticut
MH
Posts:845
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| 10/13/2011 7:36 PM |
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That's good to know because I'm sure I'll be doing that once it gets bitter out. Velvet loves it outside and Windsor likes to crap out on the couch. They are opposite when it comes to stuff during the day - he is a couch potatoe and likes being in the house. He'll run outside with her but he doesn't last long. She'll keep going.... in circles..... for hours. |
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rebelyell
Iowa
MH
Posts:176
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| 10/13/2011 9:18 PM |
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I am a believer that dogs can feel our emotions or how we feel about something or someone. Therefore, try and not feel bad, sad, cruel, negative, or guilty when you put Velvet in the crate. Instead think of it as a positive that you are keeping her out of trouble...as you do not want the dog to take on a negative feeling with the crate.(especially if it is possible that she has had previous negative experiences with the crate that you do not know about).
You mentioned she is going to have to learn to "like" her crate. The crate can and should become a safe, secure area for her. Keep it all positive experiences if possible. Start training for it now before weather gets really cold and you HAVE to keep her in there. It may take up to 2 weeks to work through all 6 steps. The first steps only takes about 2 minutes each time you repeat. You will need to get some small treats as it is repetitive.
First of all, the crate needs to be large enough for her to stand up in and be able to turn around and lay down.
This may help you begin to crate train her to where she LIKES her crate!
Step 1-You can start by putting a small treat in the crate so she has to go in the crate to get it and associate a word like "kennel" when she enters. Tell her good girl when she does enter. More than likely she will go in to get treat and come right back out. Thats okay. Do this 4-5 times in a row. Lots of praise. Then stop. Few hours later, repeat all this again. Do this at least 2days 3X a day.
Step 2-Next day, go by her crate and have treat in hand. Tell her "to kennel" and see if she will go in and turn around, then give the treat. Lots of praise. Let her come back out each time. Again, repeat 4-5 times in a row. Stop. Few hours later repeat. Do this also at least 2 days. 3X day
Next day-If step 2 went well..start Step 3, if not repeat step 2 another day.
Step 3-have treat in hand by crate...tell her to kennel and when she goes in and turns around expecting the treat...give her the command to lay down...then give treat and lots of praise. Repeat 4-5 times letting her come out each time. Repeat later that same day. May have to do this a couple days depending on how she is doing.
Step 4..same as above, only now after you give the treat..CLOSE THE DOOR after she lays down and you give the treat. Leave door shut and stand in front of crate. 5-10-15 seconds later, open door and let her out. Lots of praise. Do not leave door shut long enough for her to throw a fit during this training time, open door when she is still laying there calmly. Repeat 3-4 times in a row. Stop. Now later that day, do it again only try and leave door shut a little longer while you stand there.
If you notice that she is starting to get anxious when you close the door...you may have to work at a slow pace and try this 3or 4 times a day until you build up to 1 minute with door shut, only you will know when to procede farther.
Step 5-When she gets the hang of laying there calmly with the door shut for minute or longer-now walk out of the room after giving treat and shuting the door. Few seconds later return and praise and open door.( It is important during this initial training to not give her time to throw a fit before you walk back in the room). As you do not want to let her out while she is upset. You are just getting her use to the crate and you leaving the room. If she does get upset when you walk out..return and stand in front of crate, but do not open door until she calms down. Repeat 3-4 times. Stop. Repeat this 3X a day. Increasing the time you are outside of the room she is in. Try and work up to 1 minute before coming back in room to praise your calm dog and let her out of the crate.
Step 6- The last step in training--After a few days of step 5, is things are progressing well, you now need to find a treat that will last longer. Maybe a kong, antler, or bully stick. Something that will hold her attention for at least 15-20 minutes. Do this only once a day...maybe in the evening after she has been exercised and ALWAYS take her potty before this!! Put all the steps above into place. Walk to crate with GOOD treat in hand, tell her to kennel, after she goes in and lays down, give the good long lasting treat, close door and walk out. Try and not go into the room for at least 1hour not even if she throws a fit. Leave her alone to focus on her treat not the fact that you are not there with her. (this is really building her confidence that the crate is a great place to be) She may even fall asleep!!! Go back in 1-2 hrs and let her out . It is important to let her out ONLY when she is quiet. Continue to do this on a nightly basis if possible.
One thing that will also reinforce this...is only give her-her BONE in the crate with door shut. This is the only place for now that she can have these special treats!!! Even if you are home with her....put her in crate when she gets her bone. She will begin to love going in her crate, and you will feel better about it also knowing she does not mind being there!!
By now she should be comfortable and LIKE her crate. As she has positive association with it. So she can stay in it for 7-8 hrs at a time. Just make sure she is always pottied before being placed in her crate...and give her something to do in the crate.
This is just an approximate guideline. Every dog is different, and only you will know when to move onto the next step. Just remember to give her lots of praise and be patient...try not to rush her if she is not yet ready to move onto the next step.
My dog is just like yours...she would rather be outside when possible!!
Best of luck! |
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Jolene
-- Rebel (GSP 2010)
-- Shila (GSP 1988-2006 17 1/2 wonderful yrs )
"There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face." -Ben Williams
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:6941
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| 10/13/2011 10:30 PM |
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Crates are wonderful things and most dogs do love their crates, but I also want to mention that a very few dogs are claustrophobic. How do I know this, well I am lucky enough to have a GSP that is claustrophobic. She and I went through allot of anxiety before I finally figured out what was going on. Belle is my claustrophobic shorthair and she and I made a pact along time ago that she would never have to be crated. She also will not go into a closet or under a desk or in any small enclosed area. Belle broke out of 3 crates before I figured out what the problem was. She was fine until I shut the door and then she would go berserk. She did the best in a wire crate, but she even broke out of one of the extra heavy duty wire crates. When she finished with that crate it looked like superman had bent the bars back. I never found anyone that could bend the bars back into place and eventually got rid of that crate. I was lucky that day that I had removed her collar because she squeezed through a very tight opening and scratched up her belly pretty good and would have likely caught her collar and hung herself had she been wearing one.
So I didn't tell this story to scare anyone, and I believe crates are a wonderful thing. All of my other dogs love them and I use them regularly. I told this story though so that 1) people would be aware that dogs can be claustrophobic and if you have a dog that goes berserk in the crate test for claustrophobia (see if they are fearful in other tight areas), and 2) to remind folks to remove collars before crating a dog as they can catch on the crate and potentially hurt the dog if the dog attempts to breakout. Also, when I say she went berserk it was not the normal barking, whining, howling, pacing activity. She truly went crazy in the crate. I can't even explain it, but if you saw it you would recognize it as more than the normal fussing.
By the way, I also have to sedate Belle if she goes to the vet and has to be in a crate. When she had surgery on her shoulder the vets let her have the the run of the office and she was perfectly content to lay in the office quietly with them until she could come home. Even when she went in for physical therapy the physical therapist would let her follow her around all day. I would not leave her if they want to crate her. I also found a special boarding place that does not crate dogs. They have large indoor/outdoor areas for night and during the day they are out in very large fenced areas. T
Belle and I have an agreement, no tight places and no crates for her and she will stay wherever I put her no questions asked. I am also lucky because she is the most trust worthy dog I have ever owned. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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rebelyell
Iowa
MH
Posts:176
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| 10/14/2011 3:43 PM |
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| Texas Belle-thanks for sharing about dogs with claustrophobic! That is very interesting as I had never heard of a dog having that before. Good thing you figured it out before Belle got seriously injured trying to escape. I also agree with you 100% about no collar in the crate! |
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Jolene
-- Rebel (GSP 2010)
-- Shila (GSP 1988-2006 17 1/2 wonderful yrs )
"There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face." -Ben Williams
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Smylinacha
Connecticut
MH
Posts:845
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| 10/14/2011 6:52 PM |
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I knew I could find the right advice on here - thank you so much! Well today was BAD. Lou got up and let them out at 4 a.m. I don't get up until 6. Well my alarm goes off and I am bad and hit snooze at least 1/2 dozen times before I get out of bed - specially now that it is dark out in the morning. Dogs decided to wake me. Normally they are snoozing and I can shower and then let them out but they woke me. I let them out and they went right to the air conditioning unit outside - I think we have a mouse problem in there. So I let them stay out for about 20 minutes. It was raining (as usual - all it does it rain lately) and I had to wipe them down to let them in - covered in mud - that was a delay right there. Then not even 10 minutes go by, I am in the bathroom getting ready to take a shower and Velvet pee'd right in the hallway outside the door. I grabbed her quick, put her outside in the pen and that is where she stayed the entire day and it rained mostly all day. She stayed dry because of the dog house but between the mice, mud and potty in the house I was on valium #1 as I was stressed and late for work (this isn't the first time). So I got home (late) and Lou was home and we put together a large crate that a friend loaned us - you can fit 3 dogs in it. She will not go in her crate in the bedroom - I have to force her in it and it's only big enough for her to turn around in. She happily went in this crate. I left her there for a while. Then I let her back out but on a lead because I don't want her near the a/c unit. We are going to build a fence for that this weekend and try to solve the mice problem. We live in the woods and with all the rain we've had (rains more than sun) this year, they are more plentiful. She will be off the lead once we build something - hopefully end of the weekend. I'm watching her like a hawk inside - she is calmly sleeping in a dog bed by me right now but tonight she goes back in the crate. We are still praising her for pottying outside but not sure why she does that and then does it again inside? Trying to think about it - the other night I gave them bones - she was excited. This morning she was hunting mice and very excited - might be she is easily excitable because I notice that is when she pees. If it is a normal boring night she is fine.
So trying the crate now - she likes this one but it is big enough where she can pee in it and still stay dry, but we'll see. I am only putting her in for like an hour each time. She will go outside until it gets too cold out - then she will spend 8 hours in the crate while we are at work. Didn't want it to turn out this way but Lou's shift changed and nothing we can do about it. |
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rebelyell
Iowa
MH
Posts:176
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| 10/14/2011 9:48 PM |
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I wish you the best of luck on keeping the dogs away from mice. I live in a wooded area also..and if it is not mice my dog is hunting down, then it is moles, voles, or ground squirrels !!! These dogs get fixated on an animal and cannot leave it alone! I cannot tell you how many moles and ground squirrels I have trapped this year to stop my dog from going nuts on them!!! And she finds them in the hardest places for me to trap them
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Jolene
-- Rebel (GSP 2010)
-- Shila (GSP 1988-2006 17 1/2 wonderful yrs )
"There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face." -Ben Williams
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rebelyell
Iowa
MH
Posts:176
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| 10/14/2011 9:48 PM |
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Sorry about double post...oops!
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Jolene
-- Rebel (GSP 2010)
-- Shila (GSP 1988-2006 17 1/2 wonderful yrs )
"There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face." -Ben Williams
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:6941
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| 10/14/2011 10:13 PM |
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| Rebel you are so right. Possums, squirrels, rats, lizards, toads, etc. The list goes on and they do become fixated and will stop at nothing until they get what they are after. Mine drive me crazy at night want to go out and hunt. They have caught a few possums and rats and now they are on a mission. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Smylinacha
Connecticut
MH
Posts:845
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| 10/15/2011 3:05 PM |
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| Well we got the lumber today to build a fence around the a/c unit outside. Sure enough there is a mouse nest at the bottom. We are going to clean it out tomorrow. I put a bunch of moth balls at the bottom of the unit (inside - dogs can't get to them) and the mice are gone but nest is still there - did that last night and I noticed that they don't hang around the unit as much and aren't digging anymore. But we will fence it off from them. Crate is working out great. Velvet willing goes in but the only problem - Windsor wants to go in with her LOL! This crate could fit 3 full grown gsps - it's that big - right in the middle of my den right now but no other place to put it. Had her in there all night and she did fine. Had her in there when I was showering and getting ready to take them for a walk and she did fine. Windsor was whining up a storm because his partner in crime was in jail They've been out in the pen most of the day since the sun is finally shining again and we were busy cleaning out the garage. No more peace and quiet soon. |
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