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Subject: Is grain free really better?
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everbellUser is Offline
Kanata, ON
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08/12/2011 12:13 PM  
I agree ... I feed a high quality kibble and supplement with raw. My dogs are happy and healthy. I do this based on the advice of my breeder who has been breeding high performance dogs (GSPs and Huskies) for a long, long time. Could they be happier and healthier? Sure, but couldn't we all?

Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures
pixie beeUser is Offline

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08/12/2011 12:20 PM  
Let me first say:
I AM LAZY

Now I will say that feeding kibble is as nutritous as eating Wonder Bread
Anything heated then fortified is not nutritious,not to mention that they have to spray it to make it smell appealing to dogs. I've always wondered what it must smell like that A DOG won't eat it!


But - It's just so easy to scoop.



"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
SplatUser is Offline
Illinois (Northern)
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08/12/2011 12:55 PM  
Personally I don't see how raw is cheaper...if you can get it for $1 per pound....say I feed my dogs 1 1/2 - 2 pounds each a day that is 3-4 pounds a day which is $3 - $4 per day times 30 days for a month is $90 - $120 a month...I spend $40 on kibble right now a month...I won't argue about it being better, but it isn't cheaper...plus I am lazy too and want my kids to be able to help in the feeding...also I had a boxer live to the ripe old age of 13 and she ate the cheapest kibble out there (cheap stuff that I didn't know any better back then and I am ashamed to admit I fed it)...

everbellUser is Offline
Kanata, ON
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08/12/2011 1:03 PM  
Posted By pixie bee on 08/12/2011 12:20 PM
Let me first say:
I AM LAZY
 


Me too!
 


Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures
TheLittleBlackBookUser is Offline
FL

Posts:40


08/12/2011 2:59 PM  
Posted By GSPWI-ZL on 08/12/2011 11:58 AM
Posted By TheLittleBlackBook on 08/12/2011 11:25 AM
Posted By GSPWI-ZL on 08/12/2011 11:05 AM

NVM...i used the search function and don't even want to mess with this guy...

I'm going to be feeding Canidae - All life stages.. I will be adding raw with it, as well as veggies, yogurt, rice, eggs, etc. You have your means, and others have theirs. That's just how it is man. I don't want to argue with you or start a huge discussion. I am choosing Canidae because I'm happy with the results in the breeders dogs, you choose raw because you're happy with it in your dogs. That's all that matters.



 

Well, I certainly can't argue with you about what you're going to feed; that is your choice alone. What I don't understand is, if you're going to feed "veggies, yougurt, rice, and eggs" ... why you would choose to add "kibble" to that (@ $3.00/lb) when you could add a chicken thigh for about $0.60/lb?

But, hey, that is your choice

My purpose here was to get the original poster to think about feeding raw, not to try to tell people what to feed.

There is a difference between stating RAW IS BEST (which, in fact, it is) and telling "you" (or anyone else) "what to feed." I will champion the cause of the former to my dying day, but will never once tell another man, or a woman, what they "must" do. There is a huge difference between debating facts and telling someone "what to do" with those facts, and (unfortunately) not too many people understand the difference.

See, I will argue the facts about feeding raw versus feeding kibble, anytime, with any one ... but would never presume to tell another person "what to do" with their own money and dogs. I hope you can appreciate the difference!

Jack


Pro Dogger DVD Collection
Nature's Magic® Herbal Medicinals
The Dog Owner's Little Black Book

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TheLittleBlackBookUser is Offline
FL

Posts:40


08/12/2011 2:59 PM  
Posted By pixie bee on 08/12/2011 12:20 PM
Let me first say:
I AM LAZY

Now I will say that feeding kibble is as nutritous as eating Wonder Bread
Anything heated then fortified is not nutritious,not to mention that they have to spray it to make it smell appealing to dogs. I've always wondered what it must smell like that A DOG won't eat it!


But - It's just so easy to scoop.

 



 

Pixie Bee, I like you. You are very knowledgeable and very honest. You're knowledgeable enough to understand the reality, and honest enough to say you're too lazy to go with it. Nothing wrong with that, hell it is your choice.

I too feed kibble on occasion, when I simply don't have the time to feed raw. I am a photographer too, and sometimes have to get up and split at 5am and don't have time to prepare a meal for a whole kennel of dogs.

However, what I do typically is feed just a handful of kibble to tide the gang over ... until I can come back and do my best for them later on.

Jack


Pro Dogger DVD Collection
Nature's Magic® Herbal Medicinals
The Dog Owner's Little Black Book

.
TheLittleBlackBookUser is Offline
FL

Posts:40


08/12/2011 3:02 PM  
Posted By Splat on 08/12/2011 12:55 PM
Personally I don't see how raw is cheaper...if you can get it for $1 per pound....say I feed my dogs 1 1/2 - 2 pounds each a day that is 3-4 pounds a day which is $3 - $4 per day times 30 days for a month is $90 - $120 a month...I spend $40 on kibble right now a month...I won't argue about it being better, but it isn't cheaper...plus I am lazy too and want my kids to be able to help in the feeding...also I had a boxer live to the ripe old age of 13 and she ate the cheapest kibble out there (cheap stuff that I didn't know any better back then and I am ashamed to admit I fed it)...



 

I have a "low buget" raw diet that can be fed for $0.52/lb. I admit, my premium raw diet is about $1.30/lb ... which is still half the cost of these designer kibbles ... but twice as nutritious.

If you're talking a low budget kibble diet, then you need to compare it to a low-budget raw diet, which will beat kibble hands-down.

And if you really want to get innovative, you can go to chicken houses and such and get whole chickens for free in some places ... as well as beef scraps, bones, etc.

I have one friend in Idaho who gets 600 lb of beef scraps for $60 ... so, where there's a will there's a way

Cheers!

Jack


Pro Dogger DVD Collection
Nature's Magic® Herbal Medicinals
The Dog Owner's Little Black Book

.
SplatUser is Offline
Illinois (Northern)
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Posts:3136


08/13/2011 9:45 AM  
I know tons of people that raise chickens and not one of them and they are my friends would give me one for free...plus I have friends that raise cattle and they would never give me any for free, its there business and they can't afford to give stuff away ...I usually buy for the family a half a cow every year but it goes to the butcher and they don't just give you the scraps you have to pay even if it is yours/my friends cow....

pixie beeUser is Offline

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08/14/2011 4:12 PM  
When you send meat out to be butchered - unfortunately - they rip you off

BIG TIME

they 'take' sooooo much that doesn't belong to them

Jack,

your cause is honest and I agree with you
You do awaken the thought in more readers than you may think

Personally, I don't mind your occasional post on the merits of raw







"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
keanmuUser is Offline
Ontario, Canada
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08/14/2011 4:56 PM  

Hi Thelittleblackbook

If your intention is to get me, the original poster, to consider feeding raw then please accept this as confirmation that I have considered it. Not because you suggested it but because I know it is an option. It's just not going to happen though.

I understand you are passionate about what you believe in but your posts on here have been very forceful, whether intentional or not. If you were to put your point across in a more gentle way then perhaps people would be more open to what you have to say. It's npt what you've said, it's the way you have said (typed) it.

Your point about raw is most definately valid but your dictatorship type opinions about it and bragging about how many dogs you have had and have bred and how much time you have spent writing 200,000 words really holds no value here when you type such an aggressive reply. There are lots of people on here that have had just as much experience as you but most importantly everyone on here loves their dogs and wants what's best for them with in the limitiations of their lifestyle, preferences and budget.

The underlining of words and bold letters is really not necessary if your only intention was to get me to consider raw. It just makes for a very aggressive post which people do not like. If you weren't intentionall being aggressive then hopefully you will realise now what that kind of expressive typing portrays.

I hope you will continue to post, as someone with your experience is of great value but please be more conscious of how you type things as not to give the wrong impression.

Kam

SmylinachaUser is Offline
Connecticut
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Posts:1208


08/14/2011 5:35 PM  
I'll tell ya, Velvet who we just took in doesn't have bad gas at all anymore...... she was farting like crazy when we went to our meet and greet and she is now on grain free as well as Windsor who had the same problem. We just don't feed grain free kibble but grain free canned food and grain free treats as well. I haven't tried raw yet. Haven't read enough about it to trust myself - only reason for that is because I don't have the time. I work all day and stay late a lot so I'm in a coma when I get home. But I swear by grain free with my dogs. I think every dog is different and you gotta just pay good attention to how they react with certain foods :)
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
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08/14/2011 7:29 PM  
Kam - Excellent post and something we all need to remember when we post. We do not have the luxury of voice tone and facial expressions to help get our intent and meaning across. Thanks for putting it so nicely into words.

Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
pixie beeUser is Offline

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Posts:4452


08/15/2011 7:20 AM  

Thank you joeybean.

What's important, to me, is that we present ourselves and others with respect.
This is a wonderful forum.
I have nothing to sell, nothing to gain from posting on here - my only agenda is to present to the reader theories for debate,which sometimes create controversy and anger - we all choose to feel the way we do for reasons only known to ourselves.

People do rub others the wrong way - so, we need to examine why - the answer may become a growing experience for all parties involved.

I'm sure Jack is a good guy - he has good theories on feeding and breeding.
Adding to the forum would be appreciated rather than the occasional interruption to tell others what they are doing wrong.






 



"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
LegallyblondeUser is Offline
Otsego MI
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Posts:244


08/15/2011 9:07 AM  
Don't think this Jack guy has GSP's. I'll preface this by saying I am a huge supporter of 'pit bulls'....as such I have done a lot of research in my past and have learned a lot of the lingo of those talking about dog fighting. ROM (means 'register of merit), Ch, and Gr Ch can mean fight titles. Dogmen can refer to dog fighters. Hunt is usually code for fight. Just want to put this out there for you to make your own judgment:

http://www.johnkoerner.org/Hollingsworth/

Specifically book 2 on this link:
http://www.johnkoerner.org/PitBullBible/toc.html

UWPCH CA GSJCH USUVCH Boogerman Loverboy Oskar TDI CGC
SHR UWP CH Abbe Lane's Prince of Darkness TAN NA-I RBIMBS
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
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Posts:7851


08/15/2011 9:25 AM  
Little Black Book showed up on this forum quite a while ago and he pops in and out periodically and over the years his tone has been consistent and each post has generated frustration and anger. I typically ignore him as he is always the same. He does not have GSPs and he appears to be selling something. I have no knowledge about how great a dog person he is as I have not researched his dogs or their lines at all because I have no interest in any breeds but GSPs. I also have done my own research on raw vs kibble vs combo and have come up with something that works for me. I personally do not appreciate his tone and dictatorial attitude that he is right and all knowledgeable and everyone else is wrong. The world is simply not that black and white. I just wanted to let you guys know that he has been doing this for a long time and this is not his first appearance nor the first time he has baited someone into a discussion so that he can go through his rant on raw. I suspect he has now disappeared again and it will be a while before we here anything from. My suggestion is to ignore this guy and not be baited into a response.

Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
Almost Heaven GSPUser is Offline
Springfield, WV
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08/17/2011 2:47 PM  

After a substantial amount of cleaning up, that unfortunately required deleting many post that were informative and I'm sure took a great deal of time for the Author's to compose, I think we can now get this thread back to what it was originally about.

 

Any further straying into "the other arena" will not be tolerated and discussion will take place with the Board Owner about possible corrective actions. Please ignore and do not respond to any trollish post and allow the Moderators/Owner to deal with it.

 

Thanx Kindly in Advance,


Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.

Bruce Shaffer
Almost Heaven GSP's
sheilakUser is Offline
Rocklin, CA
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08/17/2011 4:48 PM  

Thank you.

LegallyblondeUser is Offline
Otsego MI
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Posts:244


08/17/2011 4:51 PM  
Thanks!!!!

UWPCH CA GSJCH USUVCH Boogerman Loverboy Oskar TDI CGC
SHR UWP CH Abbe Lane's Prince of Darkness TAN NA-I RBIMBS
singltrakUser is Offline
Las Cruces, NM
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08/17/2011 6:16 PM  
Thanks, Bruce! :D

Look to the Past, Breed for the Future
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