That's what we expect too

Why is that?

Here is a cropped picture of the point on the prvious page.

There is definite intensity.

Would he be considered to have less intensity then a dog with a higher tail b/c his is 9:00?

Both my dogs are different.

Here's Drake:

Gunner is more unsure of himself right now and his tail isn't as 1200 as Draken's.

So this is from the GSPCA Standard which is the standard used by the AKC.

"The tail is set high and firm, and must be docked, leaving approximately 40% of its length. The tail hangs down when the dog is quiet and is held horizontally when he is walking. The tail must never be curved over the back toward the head when the dog is moving. A tail curved or bent toward the head is to be severely penalized."

Notice it leaves to the reader to define "set high."

From the FCI standard:

"Set high, strong at the root and then tapering, of medium length. About halfway docked for hunting purposes. At rest hanging down; in movement horizontal, neither carried too high above the backline nor extremely bent. (In countries where tail docking is prohibited by law, the tail can remain in its natural shape. It should reach down as far as the hocks and be carried straight or slightly sabre tail fashion)."

And again it says, "set high" with no clear definition. Also, note they have modified the standard to now account for an undocked tail.

So, I looked up in Georgina Byrne's book her interpretation. Georgina Byrne's work on GSPs is considered by many people involved in the breed around the world as the definitive resource on GSPs. She had two areas of comment regarding the tail, but of interest here where these comments:

"When a dog is on point, its rigidly held tail is an essential part of the picture." (no mention of position here)

and

"In both Germany and Britain, the ideal tail carriage on a pointing dog is that which forms a continuous line with the back, ie head, neck, body, and tail held rigidly in an unbroken line. In the USA, however, many field aficionados train their pointing dogs to point with tails held verticallly,..." (I would disagree on the training as the tail position that my dogs have comes naturally to them and is not trained. I would say instead that it is encouraged. I would also say that Georgina's Byrnes interpretation is based on her experience and observation because none of this is precisely spelled out in the standards she was referring too.)

She goes on to say this is at odds with the American Standard (not sure which one she is referring to because there is the GSPCA Standard and also a UKC Standard), but I could no longer find anything in the American Standard that says this is wrong. So, again maybe interpretation/observation at play here. I also looked up the UKC standard and this is what it now says about the tail:

"The tail is set high and is docked to about 40% of its natural length. The tail is thick and muscular at the base and tapers toward the end. When the dog is relaxed, the tail hangs down naturally. When the dog is moving or alert, the tail is carried level with the back or only slightly above level, but no higher than 45 degrees above the horizontal. When quartering, the tail should wag laterally. The tail should never curve over the back or be carried between the legs."

So again, it does not specifically address what "set high" means, but this is probably the best definition of the tail of the three standards I looked at with regard to the "alert" tail position. The 45 degrees would put the tail somewhere between the 10 and 11 o'clock position which is what I have seen most commonly in competition in the US AKC and UKC events.

Hope this helps, and understand I am not arguing one way or another, but just pointing out what the standards say and what one person interpreted it to mean. By all means there is enough wiggle room here to allow for various positions. And I have personally finished a dog that did not hold her tail anywhere near 45 degrees with gaiting or on point, but I also have one that will finish that does hold her tail higher and holds it up when on point. Neither is wrong by the AKC standard.

So, what is the conclusion I think first the Europeans have a different definition than the US and since pixie is more involved with the German program that certainly supports her position. Since I am more involved with the AKC and UKC well that is where I tend to land. Neither is wrong. I do think we all agree on what "set high" means and dogs with that even flow of the tail off the back can and do hold their tails in 11, 10, 9 and lower positions. However, a lower tail set does make it harder for the dog to get the tail up around the 10 to 11 positions. So, again it boils down to more of a style question, and whether we agree or disagree the preferred position in the AKC and UKC Pointing dog events they like to see the tail up off of horizontal and as such you will score higher in competitions. I also think we have many other issues that are of much greater concern than the tail when breeding these dogs. A low tail set can be fairly easily fixed in a single breeding, but other areas are much harder to address.

I found the tail set discussion interesting so had to go back and look at some of my pointing pics.Here's one of rayne taken last month:

Her tail is at 10 o'clock. The only dogs that I see dogs with 12 o'clock tails are English Pointers it seems. Terra gets so intense her tail does the bushy thing at the end as Bev described. No pics of that though.