Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3154
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| 05/10/2011 6:09 AM |
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I have seen some dogs get there dew claws torn because they were running in a field and still had them....it is very painful...all my labs, boxer and gsp's have had them removed when they were little...however my dad's healer still has hers and has not had any injury...
I do think originally there were reasons for tail docking, ear cropping and dew claw removal and those reasons were to keep the dog safer from injury...now in a lot of cases it is done more as a standard...but still some dogs are hunted and having tails docked and dew claws removed is safer for them...some people say well you don't dock a labs tail and they hunt so why do the gsp....the gsp's tail is a lot skinnier than a labs so I think they can injure it easier...
My sister has assisted in a babies circumcision and yes the baby screams however as soon as it is all done and a bottle is put in the baby's mouth it has already forgotten....I asked my boys if they remember their circumcision and they have no idea what I am asking....so if these things are done at a young enough age then they are not remembered...should you have these things done for the safety of your dog or for breed standard well that is personal choice...if you don't want a dog that is docked or cropped then you have to find a breeder that feels the same way...
Even if I feel one way about something I am under the belief that I can not and should not tell others how they should feel or what they should believe...what is right for one person is not right for another and we should always have options... |
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pixie bee
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Posts:4474
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| 05/10/2011 7:26 AM |
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Well said.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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lexie44light
Australia
JH
Posts:23
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| 05/10/2011 8:41 AM |
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Agreed!
Also dew claws are just on the back right? I think the front on the inside is just another toe and is used for hunting and positioning bones. I know some dogs have no feeling and cannot control it but I'm pretty sure most gundog and retrieving breeds have (mostly) still some use of it. I know wolves can use it very well!! |
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DesertRoseKennel
MH
Posts:1033
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| 05/10/2011 8:48 AM |
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Dews are front and back, or at least they can be. Not all dogs are born with all four. And some are born with double dews on some feet. |
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"Our dogs are bred to be champion hunters who sleep on the bed"
www.desertrosekennel.com |
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JMSGunner
Bucks County, PA
MH
Posts:785
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| 05/10/2011 11:05 AM |
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Gunner still has his front dew claws.  |
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Jackie & Gunner
Impressive Gewehr von Catskill 4/19/2010
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dieterthegsp
Cape Breton, NS, Canada
MH
Posts:559
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| 05/10/2011 11:35 AM |
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I always wondered what the dogs foot evolved from. It looks like it used to be a big huge foot with that high pad and dew claw.
I also want to make a comment about dogs "using" their dew claw. I dont believe they do. We have two dogs, one with and one without. Fin does actions that look like he is using it to grip or scratch something. I feel he is doing that in spite of his claw. The reason is because Dieter does the exact same things! He grips toys, rubs his eyes, etc, just fine with that part of his leg. |
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Properly trained, a man can be dog's best friend.
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4474
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| 05/10/2011 12:23 PM |
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| If dogs were still hunting,like the wolf,coyote, they would have better use of their dew claws. My DKs have their dew claws. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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MainCreeksRemi
Wisconsin
MH
Posts:824
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| 05/10/2011 2:09 PM |
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| Nallah & Morgan both have their front dews. Remi has none. |
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Loved by Kelley:
Remi (7/3/2010) GSP
Morgan (5/17/2008) Choco Lab
Nallah (8/6/2006) Black Lab |
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3154
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| 05/10/2011 2:32 PM |
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I have heard mixed things like hunting dogs should have them removed cuz they can catch on tall grass and stuff....but then like pixie says if they hunt and have them it can help...then I have heard in agility type things to have them is better for balance...
the dew claw thing confuses me... |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7921
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| 05/10/2011 3:54 PM |
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| I grew up around greyhounds years ago and they did not remove dew claws back then. The dews were always getting ripped when they ran on the track and it was always a pain and painful for the dogs. Now they remove the dews and there is much less incidence of dews being ripped. I remove the dews on my puppies as it is one less thing to be torn and the way GSPs tear around whether they hunt or not a dew claw is bound to get ripped sooner or later. IMHO it is not worth it, and my dogs do not miss their dew claws at all. Also, they are removed at the same time tails are docked and the puppies barely even notice. I also keep toenails very short as they are less apt to tear a toenail that is short. Allot of field folks leave toenails longer on the theory that the dog runs better. Personally, I can't see any difference and toenail injuries are a pain to heal. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Almost Heaven GSP
Springfield, WV
MH
Posts:732
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| 05/11/2011 6:43 PM |
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Posted By lexie44light on 05/09/2011 7:59 AM
I said I agreed with it being done on working dogs so...
And I have seen other dogs with badly damaged tails, never said I hadnt.. In fact my sisters lab cross had to have his amputated because he wacked it so much. Obviously would have wanted to save him tha pain of that but also to balance with the pain of docked tails being chewed to the bone in some cases. I think every dog is different and should not necessary be classed by breed.
My apologies if I seemed to come off sharp, it certainly wasn't my intention. I've just seen far too many injuries to tails and dew claws to accept anything less than facts about the pro's and con's of removal. All to often facts get lost in the touchy, feely emotions of what people think and I feel I probably become very dry in my responses; thus coming off the way I did. Again, my apologies, I didn't mean to come off the way it reads.
I do sometimes wonder if some breeds really require docking and cropping anymore, more of the working groups that have become pets moreso than working dogs in these modern times; but am reminded all too often by the "Anti's Legislation" in this Country, that these emotional views they portray about the "cruelty" of such procedures have less to do with what is good for the dogs and more to do with their true agenda's. That promptly slaps me back to the reality that if the founders of the breed determined these procedures neccessary, I should surely not allow myself to be fooled into taking a position against those intents. |
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Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.
Bruce Shaffer
Almost Heaven GSP's
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kpwlee
Raleigh, NC
MH
Posts:1016
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| 05/11/2011 6:55 PM |
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I had to search for this but I found it - article on dewclaws
http://netpet.batw.net/articles/dewclaws.html
As I mentioned earlier Bugsy does use his dewclaws and rarely needs them trimmed - he clearly uses them in high speed running and also to grip things. I do understand that the integrity of dew claws varies in dogs so some have more function and are more substantial than others.
I am not however trying to make a case against anyone removing them, docking tails or cropping ears |
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It's Bugsy's world...
http://dailyzoomie.blogspot.com/ |
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lfb
UK
MH
Posts:184
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| 05/26/2011 11:32 AM |
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Perfect case for docking: girl-dog has just split the end of her (undocked) tail just by catching the tip on a kitchen chair due to over enthusiastic wagging. Blood everywhere. I suspect it will take an age to heal as well.  |
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Almost Heaven GSP
Springfield, WV
MH
Posts:732
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| 05/26/2011 11:59 AM |
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| Healing thoughts. It does look like someone was murdered when they bust them open like that and start throwing blood everywhere. |
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Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.
Bruce Shaffer
Almost Heaven GSP's
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4474
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| 05/26/2011 12:24 PM |
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So sorry about the injury.
Hope it heals well and fast
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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DesertRoseKennel
MH
Posts:1033
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| 05/26/2011 12:53 PM |
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I was thinking about this thread on Tuesday when we docked Ellie's babies and took dews. It really is minor on newborns. A whole lot better than trying to heal a mangled tail. |
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"Our dogs are bred to be champion hunters who sleep on the bed"
www.desertrosekennel.com |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7921
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| 05/26/2011 2:29 PM |
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| I agree Jean, and once you have seen the docking and dews done on the babies it really is apparent that it is not that bad. The puppies rarely react and when they do I think it is more about the fear of a stranger handling them in a strange place and being overwhelmed and not as much about pain. Heck, I have seen dogs through a scene before a vet has even touched them. My cocker used to react to whatever the vet was doing to her when I was looking on, but as soon as the vet took her in the back and she could no longer see me she was a perfect angel and not a sound. Then when the vet brought her back to me the scene would commence again. I used to call her Tullulah Bankhead, an actress famous for her exploits and scenes in Hollywood in the early years. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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dylandarling
craryville ny
MH
Posts:75
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| 05/26/2011 8:21 PM |
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| tails are done at 2-3 days old...their nervous system is not developed, and the tips of the tails can bleed when they are older when they wack it on something..then it becomes an amputation, painful!....ears however are done like what 3months??..it is painful..also those breeds that crop also have a higher rate of parvo at that age..it is a stress on them and their immune system..thats cruel!!!..and can I say..dogs and puppies are stoic..they dont show pain till they cant hide it anymore...just work at a vets office and you will see what I am referring to.. |
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sheilak
Rocklin, CA
MH
Posts:269
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| 05/29/2011 11:03 PM |
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I can totally see why GSP's tails are docked. The tails are thin and they have a powerful "wag", like a whip. Our other dog Chelsea who was 3/4 GSP had her tail intact. Man when she waged her tail, and it hit you, you knew it!!!! I am glad our new girl has her tail docked. |
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unowhoandwhy
Middleofnowhere, NH
MH
Posts:1805
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| 06/02/2011 5:15 PM |
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| I am glad they dock their tails as well. Not just because of injuries. Daniel actually knocked over a little kid with one wag of his "stub", I can't imagine the havoc he could wreak with a full tail! |
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Daniel Yankee Flyer - 8/2002
Lady Layla - 1/2006 |
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