dieterthegsp
Cape Breton, NS, Canada
MH
Posts:559
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| 05/05/2011 9:53 AM |
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| When Im asked about Dieters tail being docked most people are reassured once I explain it to them. I do not get defensive with them I just calmly explain all the good reasons. As for being sensitive to their tail...lots of dogs with full tails are sensitive to their tail..not sure if that has any meaning. |
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Properly trained, a man can be dog's best friend.
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Nancy D
No. Lower MI - Gaylord Area
MH
Posts:849
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| 05/05/2011 10:39 AM |
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I'm only speaking of dobermans now.
When the doberman breed came into being it was because of a man, Herr Dobermann, who was a tax collector in Germany. Since he had to go door to door collecting taxes, he wasn't all that well liked. That's where the dobe came in for protection. The ears and tail were done so that so that they couldn't be readily grabbed on to and pulled.
If you look at the AKC Standard for every breed, they all have a standard as to height, coat, general appearance, etc. that they are judged by in the show ring, thus the doberman standard is for a certain height for bitch/dog, coat, cropped ears and docked tail, etc. The dog/bitch that wins is the one that adhere's the closet to the standard. It is the same for all breeds that show in the ring.
In all other activities, it doesn't matter or if it has been banned in certain countries such as Canada, and other countries.
When I was collecting info on my Lucy, I noticed that a black cannot be shown in the show ring. I saw a beautiful black speckled GSP at my vets sometime ago. Still wonder why the color can't be shown, but I'm sure there's a reason for it. |
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everbell
Kanata, ON
MH
Posts:3162
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| 05/05/2011 10:44 AM |
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Not sure ear docking is illegal in Canada ... I've seen plenty of dogs with their ears done here.
The black in GSPs can be a touchy subject. There are many posts here on it. Black is accepted, if I'm not mistaken in all events other than conformation at both the AKC and CKC. UKC does not ban black. I believe many European countries accept black. (This is just my recollection. I'm certain there are people more knowledgeable about this that can correct any misinformation.) |
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Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures |
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dieterthegsp
Cape Breton, NS, Canada
MH
Posts:559
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| 05/05/2011 11:29 AM |
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| I just want to put it out there that I LOVE floppy dobie ears! For me cropped ears make a dog look mean. Just my opinion..please don't get offended |
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Properly trained, a man can be dog's best friend.
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Nancy D
No. Lower MI - Gaylord Area
MH
Posts:849
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| 05/05/2011 11:49 AM |
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I love those floppy ears too. Seems like when Baron is next to me, I'm always playing with his ears. ;-)
I thought cropping was banned in Canada, but could be wrong. I also know that some dobe owners in other countries come here or to other countries where it's legal to have cropping done so they can show in the AKC shows. |
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everbell
Kanata, ON
MH
Posts:3162
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| 05/05/2011 1:06 PM |
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Mmm... love the floppy ears too. At the dog park we used to go too there was a fawn and grey Dobie with uncropped ears. Almost looked like spotted Weimie 
Honestly, the ears are probably my favourite things on my dogs, which is probably why I balk at cropping any dogs' ears... |
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Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures |
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MainCreeksRemi
Wisconsin
MH
Posts:824
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| 05/05/2011 2:01 PM |
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| This is totally off topic, but Dan...I love your signature picture!!! Hilarious!! |
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Loved by Kelley:
Remi (7/3/2010) GSP
Morgan (5/17/2008) Choco Lab
Nallah (8/6/2006) Black Lab |
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dieterthegsp
Cape Breton, NS, Canada
MH
Posts:559
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| 05/05/2011 2:59 PM |
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| My poindexters! haah |
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Properly trained, a man can be dog's best friend.
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zodiakgsps
NW PA
MH
Posts:1059
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| 05/07/2011 5:38 AM |
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Amazes me people complain so about tail docking, funny I don't hear much about circumsission in human babies?? Is this not "traumatic & painful??" Ahhh, it serves a purpose to prevent future issues....kinda the same as tail docking does!!! (directed at the antis, not anyone here) It is also much more of a problem to do at a later date - know a guy who had to have it done at 24.
Per ear cropping, just as the Dobie standard had a reason for ear cropping, so did Danes, being boar dogs hanging long ears are easily torn, hence cropping. I grew up with Danes, uncle raised Bouviers, none ever had problems with ears being done. Bouvs with a natural ear don't bother me, but I much prefer a Dane with a cropped ear. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 05/07/2011 7:33 AM |
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To my knowledge,
babies in europe,who are of the roman catholic faith, do not get circumsissed.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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lfb
UK
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Posts:184
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| 05/07/2011 8:32 AM |
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I have one docked, one undocked (courtesy of the UK anti-docking bill a few years ago).
Boy dog's tail (on the right) is docked, JUST out of the edge of the photo!
How girl dog hasn't damaged her tail yet, I'll never know. They play rough together and as yet, I haven't shut it in the door!
Edited to say: it looks like she's had ear cropping the way the picture's taken! Obviously, this is not the case!
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
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Posts:7835
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| 05/07/2011 2:55 PM |
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| I didn't read through all the posts, but here is my opinion. Tail docking in working dogs is a necessity as it prevents nasty tail injuries. Today ear cropping is cosmetic and even in Dobes there are more and more folks that are electing not to crop and (at least with dobes) can still be successfully shown in the ring. I have seen several boxers and a Manchester have so many problems with ear cropping that I probably fall on the side of no ear cropping. As far as tail docking, if done properly at the right time the puppies truly experience little to no pain. I helped my vet dock and remove dew claws on my last litter and for the most part they didn't even seem to notice. One thing to keep in mind with tail docking is if the person who is docking does not know what they are doing they can dock a tail in the bone instead of between the bones. When that happens the tip of the tail will sometimes stay irritated, or not heal right, itch the dog, etc. That happened with my oldest girl, Belle. Her breeder really screwed her tail up and I had to have it redone when she was 6 months old. As for dew claws anyone that has seen a ripped dew claw that got caught in something won't even question the necessity. And like docking the puppies really feel little to know pain. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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lexie44light
Australia
JH
Posts:23
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| 05/08/2011 9:29 AM |
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I totally understand the neccessary for docking in working dogs yet I do not understand those who get it done for cosmetic reasons.
GSPs, Wemies and Dobies are all naturally born with floppy ears and long tails and unless the owners know they are going to compete I dont see the reason in getting the tails or ears done (tails maybe but ears definatley not). There are other dogs such as beagles, the Australian 'roo dog' or 'pig dog' which all have floppy ears and hunt to no major issues. I guess I just dont understand why ear docking and tail cropping are isolated to certain breeds when there are others who carry out the same job (whether eventing or hunt dogs) who arent docked. As in other gundogs do not have docked tails and other security/defence dogs (those with larger ears such as Rotties, Mastiffs etc) do not have cropped ears.
As I said I know the pups dont feel it after and I'm not against it I just believe we're so used to seeing dogs with cropped ears and docked tails now we take it at face value without really thinking if its needed. Sorry for the rant I've just had several docked dogs who chewed their tails to the bone even though they had been docked properly. I'd love Kaida with or without her tail but would love to save further dogs from being in pain.
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DesertRoseKennel
MH
Posts:1033
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| 05/08/2011 10:44 AM |
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Have you ever seen a dog with a docked tail who has repeatedly injured it whacking it on a wall to the point that it is just mush without any chance to heal? If you had, I think your opinion might be different. Granted this does not happen to every dog with an undocked tail, but it's an awful thing to see when it does. |
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"Our dogs are bred to be champion hunters who sleep on the bed"
www.desertrosekennel.com |
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Almost Heaven GSP
Springfield, WV
MH
Posts:731
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| 05/08/2011 5:40 PM |
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Pointers and Setters routinely tear the tips of their tails to shreds and quite often require amputation later, due to secondary infection from repeatedly opening their wounds. As an aside, many of your performance Pointer breeders are now quietly "tipping" their pups tails, removing the very end to help cut down on the damage. Just because YOU'VE never seen the other long tailed sporting breeds with damaged tails, doesn't mean it doesn't happen...... and quite often.
Thus why these are sold: www.gundogsupply.com/lewis-dog-tail-protector.html
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Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.
Bruce Shaffer
Almost Heaven GSP's
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lexie44light
Australia
JH
Posts:23
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| 05/09/2011 7:59 AM |
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I said I agreed with it being done on working dogs so...
And I have seen other dogs with badly damaged tails, never said I hadnt.. In fact my sisters lab cross had to have his amputated because he wacked it so much. Obviously would have wanted to save him tha pain of that but also to balance with the pain of docked tails being chewed to the bone in some cases. I think every dog is different and should not necessary be classed by breed. |
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kpwlee
Raleigh, NC
MH
Posts:992
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| 05/09/2011 8:58 AM |
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This topic has come up on several other boards I'm on - I understand WORKING (sporting) dogs having their tails docked but non-working homes should be able to choose IMO
I prefer a docked tail in GSP's, weims and vizslas and would hunt with all of those breeds & have no agenda with docking or not docking as long as it is done early.
Although I like the look of dobies and danes with cropped ears I PERSONALLY wouldn't do that to a dog because it looks better. I've also wondered why danes didn't have their tails docked as they are very prone to tail injuries and in some places are still working hog dogs.
I do think that docked tails in non-working dogs it is more cosmetic than functional. I know of more labs than any other breed that have had tail injuries and no one is saying they should have their tail removed.
I have no idea how Bugsy's tail has NOT been broken and/or broken open. His tail is like a pointer/dane tail and upon bringing him to the vet as a pup we were informed he was likely to need it amputated at some point. He's 5.5 and safe so far and I hope we never have to cross that bridge because I think it would be a painful and traumatic experience for him and severely impact his balance. It amazes me how photos of him running like a fool show how he uses it for balance.
From the discussions on other boards I understand that rottie, boxer and dobie tails were initially removed so that there was less to hold onto for a 'bad' guy. Since the vast majority are no longer protection dogs I don't see the point of taking it off.
so clearly I'm all over the place on this one LOL |
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It's Bugsy's world...
http://dailyzoomie.blogspot.com/ |
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DesertRoseKennel
MH
Posts:1033
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| 05/09/2011 9:42 AM |
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Philosophically, I agree that homes should have the right to choose. However, the problem is that pups need to be docked at 48 hrs of age in order to do it humanely. Logistically, you almost never know with absolute certainty which pup will be placed in which home at that age. Or perhaps said another way, we shouldn't know at that age if we are going to let the pup's abilities dictate where he/she goes. |
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"Our dogs are bred to be champion hunters who sleep on the bed"
www.desertrosekennel.com |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 05/09/2011 10:04 AM |
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The tail docking issue is pain.
Since it has been cleared up that there is no more than a discomfort and that there is a likelyhood that most pups don't even feel that -
what is the issue?
It seems to me that more people are upset with the thought rather than the facts.
Ear cropping can be sore/painful several days afterwards and can lead to infection if the proper care is not followed after the proceedure.
Are these worse than spay/neuter?
I don't hear anyone complaining about dew claw removal.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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kpwlee
Raleigh, NC
MH
Posts:992
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| 05/09/2011 10:28 AM |
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DersertRoseKennel as soon as I typed that it could be an owner decision I knew that wasn't truly possible because it has to be done early and as you say - it is done earlier than a breeder would decide which pup goes where.
pixie bee fwiw I don't like dew claw removal - my guy clearly uses his both in running and in grasping things. He has front only (he is a shelter mix so again no active decision was made)
My friend's boxer has clear scars from his dew claw removal that to me look worse than a dew claw
But I am not someone who shows dogs or who wants to - I do understand that aesthetically I am less interested than others. I don't cringe when i see a handsome gsp with dew claws, a dane with natural ears, etc
I am against infringement of others doing these things (as long as they are done properly and early) |
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It's Bugsy's world...
http://dailyzoomie.blogspot.com/ |
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