MainCreeksRemi
Wisconsin
MH
Posts:824
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| 05/04/2011 7:24 PM |
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On another forum I am on, the topic came up about people cropping ears of certain breeds like Danes & Boxers. Of course then came up tail docking.
I'm a little bit taken back by how many people have a "problem" with tail docking and have said that if they had a choice in a breed that typically had their tails docked, they wouldn't do it. This makes me wonder. Is it really that bad of a procedure? Do the puppies feel it and experience pain if done at an appropriate age?
I almost feel like I'm looked at as one of "those people" who support a cruel thing done to their dog, regardless of its meaning.
A GSP has a docked tail to prevent injury to the tail correct? They have a thin/wirey tail if it were to be left full length and prone to injury out in the field...which is why it is docked??
If anybody (breeders especially!) have any information on tail docking and your experience with it and opinions, I'd love to hear them! Thanks.. |
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Loved by Kelley:
Remi (7/3/2010) GSP
Morgan (5/17/2008) Choco Lab
Nallah (8/6/2006) Black Lab |
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Rose
MH
Posts:362
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MainCreeksRemi
Wisconsin
MH
Posts:824
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| 05/04/2011 9:13 PM |
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Thank you very much.
The picture in the thread was enough to ensure my feelings on this topic. |
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Loved by Kelley:
Remi (7/3/2010) GSP
Morgan (5/17/2008) Choco Lab
Nallah (8/6/2006) Black Lab |
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MOOSE1
Fruitport, MI
MH
Posts:1789
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| 05/04/2011 9:20 PM |
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| Yes the pups feel it when they get the tails docked by I can personally tell you within 30 seconds of being put back with mom they are done crying. And as you can tell I am sure with Remi he has no issue with you touching his tail so they do not remember it. :0) |
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lexie44light
Australia
JH
Posts:23
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| 05/04/2011 9:34 PM |
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My female doesnt have a docked tail but that is only because docking is now illegal in Australia and has been since around 2005 I believe. I only want her as a companion so docking isnt an issue and I'm actually quite glad shes got a tail as I had a GSP a while back that was very tender around the area and continually chewed at it. I also had a Weimeraner with this problem.
If I wanted her for competing it may have been an issue but as she isnt going to be I'm happy for her to have kept it. Also she has amazing colouring at the end of her tail that would have otherwise been lost! |
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DesertRoseKennel
MH
Posts:1033
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| 05/04/2011 11:20 PM |
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My pups stop squawking literally the INSTANT the vet completes the stitch he puts in the tail and in the dews. FAR less traumatizing than a bloodied tail all the time or an amputation of the tail later in life. |
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"Our dogs are bred to be champion hunters who sleep on the bed"
www.desertrosekennel.com |
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Phillyo118
UK
MH
Posts:681
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| 05/05/2011 3:09 AM |
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Docking is now illegal in the UK except for working dogs. Dogs with docked tails cannot be shown where the public have paid to watch, ie Crufts etc, except where the tail was docked before 2007 i believe. I personally prefer docked GSPs, not just aesthetically but also because of the danger of a broken tail later in life. I've read MANY reports of GSPs hurting their tails, and the majority of accidents were around the house, not out in the field.
To each their own  but i don't like it when people tell me i'm cruel because they are ignorant of the real reasons for docking. To me, its the absolute opposite to cruel. |
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"From the dog's point of view, his master is an elongated and abnormally cunning dog."
"My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am." |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 05/05/2011 4:17 AM |
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I have docked about 4 dozen tails at 2 days old.
They do not feel much of anything at this age. They are born with an immature nervous system.
Dew claws are nothing more than a discomfort.
These should be done no later than the 3rd day.
We had a dobie growing up - had her ears cropped. it didn't bother her at all. Except she may have felt a little stupid with that cup on her head.lol
Even if you tell certain people the facts they still do not change their stance.
Some become martyrs.
I just wish they would focus their energy on under educated children or hungry children.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Nancy D
No. Lower MI - Gaylord Area
MH
Posts:849
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| 05/05/2011 6:48 AM |
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Done at 1-2 days, the discomfort is very short lived compared to the damage that can happen to a full tail that either keeps breaking open at the tip or the tail breaks in half. Now that is very painful.
I've had dobes for years, and only had one with cropped ears. Since I don't show, I see no reason for it; however I do have the tails docked because of the injuries that can happened. Even today's cropped dobes aren't to standard. They were supposed to be cropped so they couldn't be pulled as easily. Today's show crops are so long, they look like handle bars coming out of their heads. JMHO |
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everbell
Kanata, ON
MH
Posts:3164
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| 05/05/2011 7:02 AM |
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| I can understand the tail-docking thing since many of these dogs are working dogs. I just can't understand the ear-cropping since, to me anyhow, it is now an aesthetic, and not practical, practice. |
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Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 05/05/2011 7:24 AM |
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I like the look of cropped ears. Since it doesn't have a negative affect, I see no reason not to.
No different than a young girl getting her ears pierced.
Or one can take up the debate of why people get tattoos.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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everbell
Kanata, ON
MH
Posts:3164
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| 05/05/2011 7:38 AM |
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| Fair enough Francine. That's a good perspective. Thanks. (I just feel sad when I see dogs with their ears taped up to popsicle sticks --- that's gotta be worse than the cone of shame!) |
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Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures |
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MainCreeksRemi
Wisconsin
MH
Posts:824
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| 05/05/2011 8:10 AM |
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I don't see the reasoning behind cropping ears unless there's a good reason for it. The discussion on the other forum was that some dogs had their ears cropped so that it wasn't an easy target for dog fights. A sensitive area to grab that would easily take them down. So the ears are cropped to avoid that. Or.....the justifiable reason (IMO) is to have them cropped for certain breeds like a Dogo Argentino for Boar hunting. A boar might grab the ear as that is an easy target as well.
So has ear cropping become popular by those cropping for a cosmetic reason, or for the well being of the dog? Thats the question. And I guess same goes for tail docking w/ certain breeds. |
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Loved by Kelley:
Remi (7/3/2010) GSP
Morgan (5/17/2008) Choco Lab
Nallah (8/6/2006) Black Lab |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 05/05/2011 8:40 AM |
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For me, ear cropping is cosmetic - is that bad?
For me, tails are a necessity. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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MainCreeksRemi
Wisconsin
MH
Posts:824
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| 05/05/2011 8:42 AM |
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No, its your opinion.
My opinion is that its not worth it to put the dog through pain when its only because its cosmetically appealing to our eye. They could care less how their ears look. |
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Loved by Kelley:
Remi (7/3/2010) GSP
Morgan (5/17/2008) Choco Lab
Nallah (8/6/2006) Black Lab |
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everbell
Kanata, ON
MH
Posts:3164
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| 05/05/2011 8:54 AM |
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Kelley, that was the point I was trying to make, but that you made much more eloquently.  |
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Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 05/05/2011 8:54 AM |
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When I said "for me" - I really meant For me - literally.
How much pain does it cause a dog?
I never thought about it b/c our dobie didn't have any issues with it.
Are there statistics out there?
Or is the pain opinion? |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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MainCreeksRemi
Wisconsin
MH
Posts:824
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| 05/05/2011 9:01 AM |
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Posted By pixie bee on 05/05/2011 8:54 AM
When I said "for me" - I really meant For me - literally.
How much pain does it cause a dog?
I never thought about it b/c our dobie didn't have any issues with it.
Are there statistics out there?
Or is the pain opinion?
Ok, I understand you now.
I just would tend to think that an ear crop would be more painful than a tail dock for one reason. They are more developed & have more sensation at that point, they don't do an ear crop on a young pup do they? Don't they have to be more developed? |
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Loved by Kelley:
Remi (7/3/2010) GSP
Morgan (5/17/2008) Choco Lab
Nallah (8/6/2006) Black Lab |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 05/05/2011 9:15 AM |
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Our dog was cropped about 3 1/2 months old. She had some itching from the taping, it bothered her b/c she could feel the tape and cup on her head and ears. Naturally, she wanted to take it off. Aside from being annoyed for about a week she became used to the taping and cup and ignored it, the cup was removed after a few weeks.
I can see some dogs having discomfort/pain for a day or two after the operation and I can see the possible need for an antibiotic. Personally, I don't think it makes a difference compared to the life span of the dog.
It's tiring having "organizations" fill the heads of the do-gooders with ..... and using these nice people to do their bidding.
If these do-gooders only knew the true agenda they may switch sides.
Beileive me - my side is a LOT NICER!
But, I guess that's another topic for another day.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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therozypozy
MH
Posts:470
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| 05/05/2011 9:31 AM |
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Funny this should come up about ear cropping. I was just thinking the other day that Maple probably wishes her ears were cropped as the puppy Java wants to always grab them which always gets a squeal out of Maple!
Now on tail docking, I do like the look when their tails are docked. Maple though can be very sensitive at her tail, but not always. I think sometimes perhaps the nerve ending is more exposed . . . not sure but sometimes she freaks out sometimes when you get too close to her tail. Please do not make any buzzing sounds around her, she goes into tail protect mode! Now Java the puppy, is totally not senstive to her tail at all. They both are cropped at about the same length.
Roz. |
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