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MainCreeksRemiUser is Offline
Wisconsin
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04/28/2011 10:43 AM  

Well, spring is here (kind of, we got snow again this morning ) But with spring come lots of new critters. Squirrels, birds, chipmunks, you know.....fun things to chase.

Remi has a new obsession of watching them out the window. He whines to go out and chase them or just watch them. We spend as much time as we can outside and we try to work him so that he is tired when he comes in. If he's tired enough, he doesn't pay any attention to them. This week has been very rainy & cold and its been hard to get him out for long. So its been a challenge. Is there any way around this or any tips you have for me? I try redirecting him into some training or we go to a different room to play...but our house is pretty open layout and he can see out a window pretty much anywhere he is. Obviously I could put curtains up...but I hate living in a dungeon! Its gotten to the point now where its not so much of an issue at night, we exercise him right after work so he'll come in and relax but he gets up at the crack of dawn...literally when he can see outside. He goes back & forth to the windows and just whines. I realize he's still a puppy but this getting up at 5 AM every morning gets old! 

Today DH is home with the pups and he just called me out of breath. Remi had  seen a squirrel cross the road, and of course he chased it. Jim yelled his name and gave him his recall command and it didn't even register to him. He payed no attention. Jim had to go out into the road and basically chase him back into the yard.  We had gotten so well with recall, but obviously not with distractions. Help? 

And the other issue.

I've been feeding the pups here Bug Off Garlic to try and help control the ticks. Its a powder garlic supplement that goes on their food. I give it once a day usually in the mornings. Remi doesnt like it. I mix it in with their boneless meal which is usually ground beef and i mix it enough so he can't just shake it off (he's done this). Well, he will eat it, but you can tell he doesn't really care for it. The last few mornings he gets done eating, goes over to the girls bowls and pees next to them?! 

I swear its been since we started the garlic, so this morning I did a test. I didn't add garlic to anyones breakfast and he didn't pee.  He gets let out every morning right when we get up and before he's fed so holding it isn't an issue. I dont get it ! Is he literally saying piss on it?! LOL 

 

Thanks in advance


Loved by Kelley:
Remi (7/3/2010) GSP
Morgan (5/17/2008) Choco Lab
Nallah (8/6/2006) Black Lab
everbellUser is Offline
Kanata, ON
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MH
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04/28/2011 10:50 AM  
How old is Remi again? He might be going through puppy adolescence...

Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures
MainCreeksRemiUser is Offline
Wisconsin
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04/28/2011 10:51 AM  
He'll be 10 months on May 3rd. I'm kind of thinking the same thing...teenage years?

Loved by Kelley:
Remi (7/3/2010) GSP
Morgan (5/17/2008) Choco Lab
Nallah (8/6/2006) Black Lab
everbellUser is Offline
Kanata, ON
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04/28/2011 10:59 AM  
Yup ... sounds about right. Plus spring fever maybe? (A young GSP's fancy turns lightly to thoughts of ...)

Probably back to square one for awhile.

Frankly, I can't blame him for whining out the window ... I've felt like doing that myself with this crazy weather :D

Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures
pixie beeUser is Offline

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04/28/2011 11:38 AM  
I can't offer much but here goes.

Ok - you can make an exercise out of it. In the house have him sit at varied distances from view and then just out of view and full out of view. As you advance thru the locations you will inforce sit (or whoa). Then you can move this exercise outside. I mean really keep a high standard. No whinning,no stomping the feet,not turning on their tush,no half way sits and the way you whoaed is the way you stay. Once you have this you can then add in the recall. Then, as he is on the move in the yard after them you can work on whoa and recall. At some point you can add in the down.

The idea is to make control a habit.And you will learn how much respect he has for you. I learned -nada,zilch,zero. We have since changed that.

Good luck.




"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
pixie beeUser is Offline

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04/28/2011 11:48 AM  

I forgot to add. I heel Bregon, the biggest offender, around them. On/off leash.
They never give up squirrels but we can get some peace if we work at it
 

Now they are nasty, I guess from guarding their nests.They don't even run away unless chased.



"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
MainCreeksRemiUser is Offline
Wisconsin
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04/28/2011 12:11 PM  
Thank you both.

I realize a lot of it is his pent up energy from the weather lately. I swear it only decides to rain when I get off work. I spent Tuesday night outside in rubber boots & a rain jacket so he could get his exercise.

What would be a good way for him to learn whining is not ok? He tends to whine when he is overly excited, and I'm not quite sure how to get him to stop that. When he does I give a stern AH AH, and he usually stops for a minute or two, but then starts back up.

Loved by Kelley:
Remi (7/3/2010) GSP
Morgan (5/17/2008) Choco Lab
Nallah (8/6/2006) Black Lab
everbellUser is Offline
Kanata, ON
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04/28/2011 12:40 PM  
I don't know ... but if you find a trick, let me know. Bo is a super whiner! (Normally, we give him time-outs in his crate when he's really obnoxious.)

Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures
SplatUser is Offline
Illinois (Northern)
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04/28/2011 1:04 PM  
Well we have a fenced in yard so a lot of the times when they go crazy looking out the window I just let mine out....however if they drive me buts going in and out and won't stop going crazy looking out the window they get sprayed with the spray bottle or put in their cage...I have done the distraction thing where I take them into the kitchen and ask for a sit or a down...then a heal and so on, but usually once that is done they go back to the window...Blitz doesn't both me cuz what he does when he sees squirrels out the window is he stands and shakes from excitement, no sounds...but Striker whines and cries...water spray bottle has helped a lot...

MainCreeksRemiUser is Offline
Wisconsin
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04/28/2011 1:25 PM  
I wish I could trust him to just let him out to get his crazies out but he proved that wrong today. We can just let the girls out to do that when they see a squirrel or something b/c they will stay in the yard but I'm not there with Remi yet.

A spray bottle is a good idea. I need to get one. I don't mind a whine here or there, but the constant whining gets to you after a while!

Once we get our basement finished it will be better. We can all go down there ....no windows for them to see anything out of! Carpet is getting installed this weekend so that will be better!

Loved by Kelley:
Remi (7/3/2010) GSP
Morgan (5/17/2008) Choco Lab
Nallah (8/6/2006) Black Lab
everbellUser is Offline
Kanata, ON
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MH
Posts:3180


04/28/2011 1:33 PM  
I hear ya Kelley. We have bought a bungalow, and a huge portion of the unfinished basement will be for dog activities in crummy weather.

Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures
MainCreeksRemiUser is Offline
Wisconsin
MH
MH
Posts:824


04/28/2011 1:39 PM  

This is the problem....

Those big windows in front are great, but he can see out them from the main floor and from the loft (our bedroom). So...as soon as there is any daylight coming in...thats where he's at! 

Now....if I could talk DH out of getting rid of his pool table so the dogs had even more room in the basement...LOL

 


Loved by Kelley:
Remi (7/3/2010) GSP
Morgan (5/17/2008) Choco Lab
Nallah (8/6/2006) Black Lab
pixie beeUser is Offline

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04/28/2011 7:09 PM  

What would be a good way for him to learn whining is not ok? He tends to whine when he is overly excited, and I'm not quite sure how to get him to stop that. When he does I give a stern AH AH, and he usually stops for a minute or two, but then starts back up.

The whinning is due to over excitement. First will come the shaking,like a leaf on a tree,then the whinning, then a break.Dogs who whine will always break, even if it's just a butt lift or a balance shift on whoa. I have not seen a dog standing birds whine. I have seen dogs in an honor whine.Basically, a whine is a break of a command. So, we need to have high standards. Which means a firm correction. AH-AH may work and when it does,offer a treat, heel him off before he begins to whine, then re-sit him and start over. Or you could use a prong collar, correction.

I don't use physical corrections for this. As the dog becomes under whelmed they stop the whining.

It all takes time,effort and patience.

If we train our dog like their life depended on this training we would all be the best trainers.



"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
SmylinachaUser is Offline
Connecticut
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Posts:1208


04/28/2011 7:22 PM  
Windsor does the same thing. He runs from room to room, slamming himself down on furniture barking and whining at the windows when he sees stuff in the yard.... lately turkey and deer. And I know how you feel - it's always raining here and I'm still in rubber boots to get down the mud pit of the driveway. Then it's back in and wipe him off but the cat greets us as the door and sometimes he won't sit so I can't wipe him off.

Today was interesting - deer out in the boggy area of the woods. We get half way down the driveway and they don't flinch - that is how tame they are. Windsor is going NUTS, BALLISTIC, you name it. Would not listen to any command. And just for kicks I whistle for the deer to come and one came walking right towards us and stopped about 20 feet away with a curious look. Windsor finally sat, staring back but I know if I let him go, forget it, he'd be gone chasing this deer. These deer are like housepets - they fear nobody and they are as plentiful as squirrels around here. Sort of an annoyance but pretty cool when they come to you. I had two fawns a couple of years ago right up to the porch. One time we had turkeys follow one of the kids into the sun room (then he went for the bb gun LOL).

This winter and cold spring hasn't been easy on anyone, including all the animals - they must be as happy as we are to get out and about. Sort of a pain but it is what it is. As I type this Windsor is whining at something in the window - it is now dark but he sees something. Bed soon for me and I hope he stops the noise soon. He's at a high pitch whine right now. Oh yeah, I was away on business and he peed on me as soon as I walked in the door - that's a first. Wish I could tell you something good but as you can see, I have my hands full LOL :)
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
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04/28/2011 10:06 PM  
So, if he really really understands the recall, then I would introduce the ecollar to break him chasing wild animals. At the very least with an ecollar you can enforce the recall when an wild animal is involved. I hike with my dogs in the mountains of CO and NM and I do not want them chasing animals into the middle of nowhere. So, I trained the recall until they 100% understood the command. At the same time I conditioned them to the collar (they wore one every time we went somewhere fun long before I ever intended to use it. Eventually I let them off leash and reinforced the recall with the ecollar. I knew we would eventually encounter deer or something and I was ready when we did. Of course they took off after the deer, I called and then reinforced the command with the ecollar. It only took a couple of times and then they were solid. They still wear the collar as a precaution, but I rarely need it any more. They no longer even think about chasing wild critters, even squirrels. It hasn't diminished there fun with squirrels in the backyard either, but if I tell them leave it, they do.

As for whining, Halo developed a real whining and barking habit in my open obedience exercises when we were doing retrieves. Since I do not like to loose points on things that can be prevented, we went to work on the quiet command. I knew she also whined when she wanted to play, so I used that time to reinforce the word quiet when she stopped whining. I would say ah ah when she would whine and as soon as she stopped I would tell her good quiet. I transferred that to my training too, only there I stopped the exercise when she whined, and when she was quiet I would tell her over and over good quiet. Eventually I could tell her quiet and she would break off the whining and I would give an immediate reward. It didn't take long for her to realize what quiet meant. For this to work though you have to be consistent. You can never reward the whine. She has now learned to control that whine when she is excited and if she leaks a whine all I have to do is remind her quiet. So, now when we get ready to go into the obedience ring, I tell her quiet and just before we do retrieves I remind her about being quiet. I have also been able to use the command in other instances too with success. It is still a work in progress, but we have made progress. As pixie said, it is about self control, so I would nip it in the bud before it becomes too much of a habit.

Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
RoseUser is Offline

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04/29/2011 12:32 AM  

Very good tips here, I'll have to give them a try as well.

SplatUser is Offline
Illinois (Northern)
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04/29/2011 5:40 AM  
Pixie I have thought about doing the prong collar for Striker when he whines...he is a tough little pup and needs firm corrections, verbal ones roll right off him...so I would sort of use the prong with a quick snap and basically try and get a quiet whoa...I don't have an e-collar so I have been wanting to work on whoa and use the prong for it...I know I won't be doing it how someone who hunts for real would but I would like some basics along those lines...I found out I can get birds from Blitz's breeder but I am waiting till warmer weather...

I don't know how to do the recall anymore than basically how Bev says to do it....I did borrow an e-collar when Blitz was younger and before we had a fenced in yard and that taught him that under all circumstances you come when called...never used it on Striker though he has an amazing recall too...the other day friends were taking down trees in our back yard and the gates were open, a bicycle rider went by out front and Striker took off, my husband called him and he stopped and came back...our friends son says to his dad now that is how a dog should listen! They were so impressed...I guess their boxer isn't so well behaved....then later my husband was working the tractor and and our friend's son told both our dogs to sit and stay and they did, impressing him again that they listened to a stranger...I guess I am just lucky to have 2 great dogs...
I think most training just takes times and consistency....

pixie beeUser is Offline

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04/29/2011 6:59 AM  
I would suggest not pushing the training too far in the begining. We first have to teach the dog that the correction is for whinning. Once they understand this the correction is justified and sessions can be longer.
If after a week the dog simply isn't getting it,then a physical correction,after the verbal correction, would be needed. They have to understand that there will be consequences and that it benefits them to not want that consequence.
Sit means sit, not shake,not yawn,not lay down,not lean into me,not whine,not stomping feet -SIT!

Easier said than done!


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
MainCreeksRemiUser is Offline
Wisconsin
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MH
Posts:824


04/29/2011 7:03 AM  

Thanks for all the suggestions, very helpful.

Bev I do have a question for you though. At what point did you introduce the e-collar and actually use it? Was the first time you used it when they went to chase deer? You mentioned "if he really knows recall, then I would introduce the ecollar to break him of chasing wild animals". I *think* he knows recall, but I also think he has selective hearing and chooses when to listen....yesterday was a prime example. Obviously the only way to test those situations, is to be in them. So....would you suggest that he starts wearing the e-collar during all of our fun activities...and should that situation occur, I then use it? Or is this something I need to condition him to so he doesn't freak out when he gets a nick and run off?

Our trainer we are working with wants to introduce the ecollar in the future, but he uses the beeper for recall and low stimulation for whoa. Is this ok? His theory is that with whoa you can and should be able to get your dog to stop over anything with that command. Which he says has saved his dogs life many times.


Now last night I had him out, off leash in the yard. He was an angel. He took off behind the shed once a little bit too far so I called him and he turned immediately. I wonder how much of it is him testing Jim....I have been the one working with his recall, not so much Jim. So maybe that needs to change too.

Marcia- we used a prong collar to introduce whoa to Remi. It was pretty easy and he caught on fast. We're now up to 20' away (using a check cord and flat collar) and he holds a whoa for 3 minutes....so far, I haven't tested him longer than that yet. This is outside with his sisters running in circles around him too.


Loved by Kelley:
Remi (7/3/2010) GSP
Morgan (5/17/2008) Choco Lab
Nallah (8/6/2006) Black Lab
TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
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04/29/2011 7:45 AM  

Re recall: He needs a refresher, more recall exercises on a check cord, gradually adding distractions. At one year old I would introduce the e-collar to eventually proof the recall on chase mode.

Tessa window hunts as well - I have low windows and there are 3 or 4 cats that love to stroll by which drives Tessa wild. When that happens, I just tell her to quit and redirect her. I am lucky though that she's not much of a whiner.


To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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