TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 03/07/2011 2:57 PM |
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| Then again, we had two dogs that were raised on the $ 20 for 50 lbs bags of kibble bought at the farm and seed store, one dog was switched to Natures' Recipe, decent food but nothing compared to today's options, both dogs lived to be 14 years old and died of old age. Hmmm... |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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MainCreeksRemi Wisconsin
 MH Posts:824


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| 03/07/2011 5:39 PM |
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Yup...my parents always had labs and were usually fed whatever was on sale....and lived to be pretty old. But I also know a lot of people who smoke, drink, and eat McDonals a few times a week and live way longer than you'd ever guess they would too. |
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Loved by Kelley: Remi (7/3/2010) GSP Morgan (5/17/2008) Choco Lab Nallah (8/6/2006) Black Lab |
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dieterthegsp Cape Breton, NS, Canada
 MH Posts:559


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| 03/07/2011 6:35 PM |
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| true..but in spite of and because of are two different things. |
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Properly trained, a man can be dog's best friend.
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Splat Illinois (Northern)
 MH Posts:3136


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| 03/08/2011 5:35 AM |
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| yeah it all just depends on the person or dog as to how they do on different foods....that's why the only way of knowing is to try it for a little bit and see how yours do on it....or just stick to what you have... |
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TheLittleBlackBook FL
Posts:40


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| 03/11/2011 10:10 AM |
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Posted By TessaGA on 03/07/2011 9:49 AM
It is confusing and kibbles are of course highly processed and I actually find it amazing that our dogs can thrive on those dry pellets all their lives.
The main issue I have with ANY brand is the consumer can never be sure what really is in the food, where the ingredients come from and how many corners are cut and where.
Right now Orijen is the only kibble on the market that I chose to trust but it still wouldn't surprise me if there was a recall in the future, or it turns out to be scam. I can't imagine the scam though, they've been highly rated all over the world and sell the food in countries with stricter regulations as to what can or cannot be in dog food.
To assure our quality, our factory, ingredients, processes and foods meet the strictest European Union standards, and our ingredient suppliers are approved and audited by the Government of Canada and the United States Department of Agriculture.
So it's not that much about the ingredients anymore these days (most foods except the lowest are now looking pretty good), it's about the quality control. Until that massive recall a few years ago had no idea some of the ingredients can come from China!
Actually, the fact is your dogs DON'T "thrive" being fed little dry brown pellets. The simple truth is most of you don't even know what a healthy dog looks like, because (by feeding kibble) you have not created the conditions for a truly healthy dog to exist. The subject of "McDonald's" was brought up, and the truth is any dog owner who feeds their dogs "kibble" all their life is worse than a parent who feeds his/her kids McDonald's all their life. (At least McDonald's food still has moisture to it!)
When I say no person who feeds kibble knows what a healthy dog looks like, what I mean is they do not have dogs that literally *glow* with good health like this:


The only way to get your dogs in optimal shape is to feed them RAW, as that is what dogs are biologically-designed to eat: raw, whole animals. Running a dog on bone-dry kibble, when it's supposed to eat raw (moisture-rich) meat is destructive to the dog. Keep in mind that natural meats are 70% water, so dogs that get fed raw have plenty of water in them naturally and don't need much additional water. The dogs' own bodies are likewise about 70% water, so eating a raw diet keeps them in a perpetual state of equilibrium as nature intended. This natural balance is thrown-off when a dog is fed kibble, while feeding raw maintains this balance as it should be. For example, a dog that gets 2-lb of chicken quarters actually gets 22.4 oz of water and only 9.6 oz of solid food. By contrast, a dog fed 2 lb of dry kibble (at 10% moisture) gets fed only 3.2 oz of water and 28.8 oz of solid food. In other words, he gets 3x the amount of solid food a raw-fed dog gets, and nowhere near enough water to process it. For if a dog ate 28.8 oz of solid mass from raw feed, then he would be getting nearly 70 oz of moisture to process it, as again a raw diet is 70% water and 30% solid. So ~30 oz of solid mass should have 70 oz of moisture to process it, but a kibble-fed dog gets only 3.2 oz of moisture to process 28.8 oz of solids. No wonder kibble-fed dogs drink 10x the amount of water raw-fed dogs drink--they are literally forced into a perpetual state of dehydration!
This is what I personally feed my own dogs:
1. Chicken Quarter (10 oz. raw)
2. Egg (soft-boiled)
3. Beef Tripe (2 oz raw)
4. Beef Liver (2 oz raw)
5. Chicken Gizzards (2 oz raw)
6. Veggie Mix (2 oz raw)
7. Plain Yogurt (tBsp raw)
8. Essential Oils (2 oz mix: WheatGerm/Flax/CodLiver)
Now keep in mind that most low-end kibbles are around $30 for 40 lb which is $0.75/lb. People who feed "Diamond Naturals" ... and "Kirklands" ... are feeding PURE GARBAGE to their dogs compared to this diet above ... which costs about the same as feeding these feeds. And the people who feed "Taste of the Wild" or "Orijen" think they're feeding as good ... but in reality they are NOT ... all they're doing is paying like $4.00/lb just to feed the dried relics of what was once good food.
By contrast, a conscientious dog owner can feed my entire ELITE LEVEL DIET for pretty darned cheap. Here's how:

CHICKEN
Most Walmarts sell 10-lb bags of chicken for between $4.90 and $5.90 a bag (which is $0.49/lb to $0.58/lb). This is the bulk weight of your dog's diet: meat, fat, and bones.

GIZZARDS, BEEF TRIPE, BEEF LIVER
Most Walmarts also sell 1.25 lb of chicken gizzards for ~$1.50 (which is $1.20/lb). I buy every single one of these every time I go in. Walmart also started bringing in beef tripe [as well as kidneys (not featured)] into its stores for about $1.38/lb. I got the Beef Liver at WinnDixie for $0.75/lb. I buy every single one of these they have in stockevery time I go in. This is the second bulk weight of your dog's diet: organ meats.
I think how to get the eggs, the yogurt, and the essential oils are pretty self-explanatory (although I have a source to get my oils in HUGE bulk at a dramatic savings).
Now, as far as the veggie mix goes, I bought a large Juicer at Walmart also, and I mix a wide variety of veggies with it for my girlfriend and me, including a jalapeño pepper and garlic cloves:
 
VEGGIE MIX
I wisely use my vegetables TWICE ... (1) I make a very healthy vegetable drink for my girlfriend and me, and then (2) I use the discarged "garbage" to give my dogs ... which still have plenty of essential trace vitamins and minerals. I scrape all the veggies into a large bowl, and then give each dog 2 tBsp of the veggie pulp. We get the drinks; the dogs get the pulp.
All-In-All this is as healthy as a person can possibly feed their dogs 

DISH
The full complement of ingredients create as healthy a diet for a group of dogs as they can possibly eat.
At the end of the day, and depending on the prices where you're getting your supplies, your feed bill will be between $0.80/lb to $1.40/lb.
If you're on a tighter budget, I have recipes in my book where you can feed a raw diet for only $0.58/lb. No, it isn't quite as good as the one I have posted, but it damned sure is better than ANY kibbled feed on the market ... and you can do it for even cheaper than Ol' Roy.
Yes, feeding your dogs at this level requires extra work ... and the willingness to do this extra work is what separates an excellent dog owner from an average dog owner.
Hope this helps some folks ... who are willing to put-forth the effort,
Jack
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♦ Pro Dogger DVD Collection ♦ Nature's Magic® Herbal Medicinals ♦ The Dog Owner's Little Black Book
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dieterthegsp Cape Breton, NS, Canada
 MH Posts:559


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| 03/11/2011 11:44 AM |
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| WOW |
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Properly trained, a man can be dog's best friend.
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dieterthegsp Cape Breton, NS, Canada
 MH Posts:559


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| 03/11/2011 11:51 AM |
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| Your gsp doesnt look right? |
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Properly trained, a man can be dog's best friend.
Videos
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dieterthegsp Cape Breton, NS, Canada
 MH Posts:559


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| 03/11/2011 12:02 PM |
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Ok...I agree that you are feeding the best possible meal to your dog. That being said, you come off very condescending in your post. You do not own a GSP and you are trying to sell us a book. What are you doing here? |
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Properly trained, a man can be dog's best friend.
Videos
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7864


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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 03/11/2011 1:14 PM |
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Always a pleasure, Black Book, whoever you are!  |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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bravepoint North Gower, ON Canada
 MH Posts:894


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| 03/11/2011 1:31 PM |
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| I don't like to respond to Black Book but... many of my friends who feed raw have asked what I feed my dogs as their coats are super shiny (especially my solid liver GSP) and they are in great physiacl condition. Kibble! If ain't broke, don't fix it. |
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Gail, Moka, Avery, Terra & Rayne Bravepoint GSPs
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7864


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| 03/11/2011 1:36 PM |
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| Gail - Ditto here. I have absolutely no problems with health, energy, endurance, coat, etc with my dogs and they are fed kibble. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 03/11/2011 1:37 PM |
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| Raw is great but it's not practical for most of us. Doesn't travel well, for one. Also, not all dogs do equally well on that either. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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JMSGunner Bucks County, PA
 MH Posts:785


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| 03/11/2011 1:51 PM |
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Black Book - While you present a valid point, I wish you'd present your posts less condescendingly. It'd make your point be heard WAY better... you come off as accusatory and rude. You pretty much slammed everyone on this board saying that those of us who feed kibble are giving our dogs GARBAGE. While I do wish I could feed raw, I can't and am kind of offended. I've researched hours on kibble for my dog and I came up with one that I am happy with and he is happy eating. Next time maybe read your post and keep in mind what my mom always told me... "If you don't have anything nice to say... don't say anything at all" Educate us, show us what you do, but don't bash us and slam us. It's not needed or wanted. |
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Jackie & Gunner
Impressive Gewehr von Catskill 4/19/2010
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bravepoint North Gower, ON Canada
 MH Posts:894


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| 03/11/2011 1:56 PM |
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| Well said Jackie! |
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Gail, Moka, Avery, Terra & Rayne Bravepoint GSPs
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7864


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| 03/11/2011 2:04 PM |
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| I second that, very well said Jackie. Unfortunately, I think this will fall on deaf ears as many of us have pointed out before that his posts are rude and condescending and they just keep coming. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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everbell Kanata, ON
 MH Posts:3167


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| 03/11/2011 2:13 PM |
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| As I said to Dan in a PM, I tend to distrust people who speak in absolutes. There is no way that one solution works for everyone. To say otherwise, IMO, is shortsighted and foolish and adds nothing to the question which Dan raised. |
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Joce and Rich Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs) Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats) The Everbell Adventures |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 03/11/2011 2:23 PM |
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I have problems with Little Black Book's post. I don't care about his tone - I live in NY.LOL. I have a problem with - The simple truth is most of you don't even know what a healthy dog looks like, because (by feeding kibble) you have not created the conditions for a truly healthy dog to exist And feeding the crap from the stores you shop in is BETTER?????? Don't talk to me unless you feed wild game you caught yourself or know personally the person who did. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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dieterthegsp Cape Breton, NS, Canada
 MH Posts:559


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| 03/11/2011 2:36 PM |
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| hahahaha he buys his food from walmart and claims it is the best possible thing to feed his dog... |
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Properly trained, a man can be dog's best friend.
Videos
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JMSGunner Bucks County, PA
 MH Posts:785


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| 03/11/2011 2:50 PM |
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| Yeah I almost didn't post anything, but I think if he would educate instead of force feed *his* posts wouldn't fall on deaf ears and most of us would quit rolling our eyes when we see his handle pop up on a post. LOL |
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Jackie & Gunner
Impressive Gewehr von Catskill 4/19/2010
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