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Subject: GSP Breed Standard
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singltrakUser is Offline
Las Cruces, NM
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01/29/2008 9:13 AM  
Some great points, Bill and you are right on the money about judge preferences. Just because one judge doesn't like my liver roan special doesn't mean that he won't like my light ticked girl, or vice-versa. Many show folks, if you will allow that designation, keep a list of which judge did what with who....I have one that I've kept since 1989 and even today its very useful. Trial folks do the same, knowing which judges will look for all-age range rather than gun dog range, etc. With prices scurrying up at a record rate, why would you enter a trial or show with a dog that wasn't going to pass muster to that particular judge or judges? Personally, I despise the division between field and show people, if you will. There is nothing wrong with having a great looking dog out hunting up a covey, or a well-muscled dog who's been out hunting the day before, getting a bath and coming in to the show ring and winning a major. I want my dogs to be able to do both, some things perhaps better than others.

You mention TD work...My old Snowie (full sister to my old Best in Show Dual Hero) did both show and Therapy Dog work. She was great at both as long as she was the center of attention. . I saw her bring an old woman to speak and to tears by just going and putting her head in the woman's lap. The nurses were in tears also as she had not spoken in months. Right now, trying to find one of the furtribe to replace her has been difficult. Not every GSP has to hunt, or be show quality or work in obedience or rally or track. When I'm looking for good puppy owners I'm also looking for great puppy owners. Someone said last summer they were afraid they'd not live up to my expectations for them and their pup and my reply was that the most important thing to me was that I knew this puppy would have the very, very best people to hang out with and own. :D So yes, of course, titles and championships are not the be all and end all. But, they do let folks know that our dogs are "Every Use" dogs.

Phyllis and furtribe
www.singltrakshorthairs.com

Look to the Past, Breed for the Future
JodiUser is Offline
Tampa, Florida
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01/29/2008 9:45 AM  

I have to say I do agree with Marie that personality plays a huge role!!  My dog is not for showing and he is neutered so no breeding in his future anyways.  I would say he is true GSP disposition with his active, pleasing drive and clown personality.  I have just found it so interesting to read about what makes a "show" dog.  I think my pup is beautiful (as most feel about their own dogs, but I just never would have any clue if someone judging him would think he was as great by breed standards, because I am going off of his personality and looks but no real exact measurements weight and coloring isues... this is my first gsp so I am not sure of any of the details kow what makes one more perfect than another as far as qualifictions ect.  I actually chose Jackson because I liked his markings and darker liver color....not knowing if darker liver was preferred or actually looked down upon...  It was also interesting to learn about the eyes and prefered coloring there.

Thanks all for you imput!  You have helped educate me.  I do find that personality and disposition plays such a crutial role and it seems sad to me that showing dogs does not really demonstrate that side of the dog much.   SO I would be happy with my pooch no matter what...but I do understand how this all relates to keeping the breed standard and keeping GSPs looking and acting like they should in the future

bruns333User is Offline
Central Ohio
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Posts:383


01/29/2008 11:25 AM  

The conformation ring does have some testing as to a dogs disposition.  If a dog has not been well socialized with people and other dogs it will have a hard time relaxing in a building full of people and other dogs on leashes in close quarters.  If you have never been to a dog show I can assure you that an unstable shorthair would not enjoy the experience.  The judges also judge on how approachable a dog is.  Some judges don't like a dog that backs away from them or doesn't allow a decent exam because it is so anxious about what is happening.  Conformation does a lot of good for the shorthair, no it isn't perfect, but has its usefulness in improving the breed IMHO.


Where temperament means performance
http://silverbulletshorthairs.com/
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=721 R.I.P Trego 6-1-03 to 10-13-10
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=941
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=3626
LegallyblondeUser is Offline
Otsego MI
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Posts:244


01/30/2008 4:49 PM  

Well since no one else has brought it up I'm going to throw the UKC standard into the ring too.The standard is a little different than AKC, but then, UKC is different from AKC. There's more focus on performance in UKC than there seems to be in AKC.

Here are some excerpts:

Characteristics

    The key word to describe the German Shorthaired Pointer is versatility. German Shorthaired Pointers have been known to hunt upland game and waterfowl, track deer and bear, and even tree raccoons. They are willing, enthusiastic workers who thrive in the most rugged country and weather. They require little training to point or to back any other dog they see pointing. They retrieve equally well on land and water and can locate dead or wounded game in the heaviest cover. As a companion, the German Shorthaired Pointer is friendly, intelligent, and eager to please.
        Tail
          The tail is set high and is docked to about 40% of its natural length. The tail is thick and muscular at the base and tapers toward the end. When the dog is relaxed, the tail hangs down naturally. When the dog is moving or alert, the tail is carried level with the back or only slightly above level, but no higher than 45 degrees above the horizontal. When quartering, the tail should wag laterally. The tail should never curve over the back or be carried between the legs.

          Note: UKC acknowledges that the practice of tail-docking is forbidden in some countries, and therefore feels that no dog shall be penalized for a full tail (unless specifically addressed and forbidden in the breed standard for that breed). A natural tail is acceptable. It should reach to the hocks, and should be carried straight or slightly saber-like.

          Serious Fault: Tail curved over the back.
          Color
            The coat may be of solid liver or any combination of liver and white, including liver and white ticked, liver spotted and white ticked, or liver roan.

            The coat may be of solid black or any combination of black and white, including black and white ticked, black spotted and white ticked, or black roan.

            Tan markings are permissible.
            Gait
              When trotting, the gait is effortless, smooth, powerful and well coordinated, showing good but not exaggerated reach in front and drive behind. The backline remains level with only a slight flexing to indicate suppleness. Viewed from any position, legs turn neither in nor out, nor do feet cross or interfere with each other. As speed increases, feet tend to converge toward center line of balance. It is recommended that dogs be shown on a loose lead and moved at a moderate speed to reflect true gait. Poor movement should be penalized to the degree to which it reduces the German Shorthaired Pointer’s ability to perform the tasks it was bred to do.

      UWPCH CA GSJCH USUVCH Boogerman Loverboy Oskar TDI CGC
      SHR UWP CH Abbe Lane's Prince of Darkness TAN NA-I RBIMBS
      Ken LynchUser is Offline
      Hudson Valley in NY
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      02/05/2008 4:03 PM  
      Does anyone have any idea why the UKC Standard alows Tan markings?
      TreyUser is Offline
      SW Iowa
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      Posts:516


      02/05/2008 4:20 PM  
      Probably based on the 'Gelber Brand' allowed in the german standard. 'Slight tendency to sandy color around the muzzle and feet is permissible.
      In the notes (Georgina Byrne) it states that "Atta Sand, a littermate of the very important sire Artus Sand, was tricolored". She also states "I have asked several distinguished German fanciers about the 'Gelber Brand', and there seems to be some disagreement as to what it really is. There is no doubt however, that is is very rare."

      So, I am guessing they based thier standard on the German. I am suprised it is still in the German Standard.

      I have seen two wiems with tan markings on the face and feet (dobe markings) they are very light, and you have to have them in bright light to see them. The dogs are unrealated.
      Ken LynchUser is Offline
      Hudson Valley in NY
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      02/05/2008 4:54 PM  
      Is there a definition of what "Gelber Brand" and "Tricolored" mean (German or UK)? I have been told by several people US and UK that a tan patch on an otherwise liver and ticked dog is a "tricolor". I have also talked with a person very familiar with the development of the embryo that such a tan spot is probably caused by a genetic mutation effecting the stem cell which generated the cells of the skin causing the color of the hair in that area.
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