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therozypozy
 MH Posts:470


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| 11/05/2010 4:34 AM |
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I don't think you can use a sound system inside where the dog is completely comfortable to train for sound sensitivity. I know my dogs never cower when there is a loud noise when they are in the house, they always want to go investigate. Now outside, that is a different story. You definitely should not baby them and you should ignore it, slowly getting them further away from the sound and distracting them. I know starting my first GSP out, she was afraid of the gunshot. Would tuck her tail and wanted to get away from it. Of course, she had never heard a gunshot before either. Now, once we got her bumper out to retrieve (we were working on the water retrieve test for the GSP nationals) she totally forgot about it. We did this, slowly getting the gunshot closer, but always while she was doing her retrieve from the water. This definitely worked and at the Nationals, we were successful in getting her NRD title on retrieving a quail from the water.
MelB - we have a very loud teeter we train with. While it is the sound they notice first, it is also the big movement of a full size teeter that is also the issue. We start out with a baby teeter, not having them go across it, but we put Ceaser (the dog food in the small containers, we call it crack for dogs) and have them get it from the end without them having to make it move, graduating to moving the food further away on the teeter to have them step on the end of the teeter to make it move. Once they are very comfortable with that, we will then have them go across it. You don't want train them to hesitate at the pivot point, so don't have them go across a baby teeter until they are comfortable with stepping on the end making it move and the sound of it. |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


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| 11/05/2010 5:18 AM |
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I believe the dogs know when it is real and when it is 'memorex'(I'm showing my age) If we can tell the difference between the 2, so can the dogs. I don't think ignoring is the way to go. I would definitely get the dog active at first sign of insecurity. Not hyped up, just invovled.We want to send the correct message. Sorry you have to miss the fireworks. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Splat Illinois (Northern)
 MH Posts:3136


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| 11/05/2010 5:24 AM |
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I think they can tell the difference too...between real and fake...however mine will still jump at the loud digital gun shot, but they don't get the shakes... I gotta get some free time and get me some quail! Thinking early next week...now here is my very dumb question...so I go and I get the quail like the day before or the day I am going to use them...do I feed and water them? what do I feed them? Then I use them...do I expect to get them back? dead or alive? I won't be shooting them yet obviously.... |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


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| 11/05/2010 5:49 AM |
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Every trainer's dilemma. Whe usually get them the day before and we don't feed or water, unless it's hot outside. It all depends on what you want to do with them. If you are only going to work on pointing then they should be in near perfect condition - which leaves you in a bit of a pickle - what to do with them now! You can continue to feed and water - for a weekend I satuarte bread with water and this keeps them for the few days I use them - for the long run a wild bird seed is good or corn meal we get from a farmer. We don't keep birds more than a week tho. We will work on retrieving live and after many retrieves the birds usually have had enough and expire, which we then freeze them and use dead. Don't be overly worried if the dogs catch a few here and there. Not desired but it does give you the opportunity to work on the delivery - have them on a check cord for insurance. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


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| 11/05/2010 6:07 AM |
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Ok, here's a question...maybe I just missed it. If you get a really good response from a distance like lets say at 200' your dog has no idea a shot even went off, is it ok to move closer during that session? And if so how close is too close in one training session? I'm just getting ready to start Dax with gunshot desensitization. As a younger pup I would pop bags in the house, clap my hands, and knock on his metal bowl really loud when it was time to eat. He generally seems to ignore loud noises including fireworks, thunder, and shooting at the gun range over the hill from us.
My opinion is that we are not looking to see a reaction. In other words - we don't continue until there is a reaction and then stop or work thru it. What a dog does with distant noise can be a far cry from what they do at close range noise. Once you see that startled reaction from a pop,which is may not be a bad thing, the next pop the dog should see a moving object so it can follow it with its eyes or run if it wants to. When we do clay shooting the dog are watching the clays more than the shooter. The movement brings out prey.
Sensitivity (nerve) is inherted but much of what a dog is is a result of exposure and training. We can never know what a dog can or can not be or what their strengths and weaknesses are until we expose and train.
My general opinion is that once (most dogs)a dog comes to the realization that a shot produces a bird/retrieve for them, they are anticipating the noise.There is that connection. I don't do specific gun intros. We shoot a lot and the dogs learn what it means thru association. Then there are those dogs who just aren't cut out to be gundogs.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Splat Illinois (Northern)
 MH Posts:3136


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| 11/05/2010 6:31 AM |
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| I am definitely gonna use a check cord...I have one already plus I have a zillion horse lounge lines...however I plan on only working one dog at a time...I have 2 dogs so I am thinking I really only need maybe 4 quails especially if I manage to work only points and keep them alive...in case need be it should be easy to find quail food, bread, wild seed and corn meal I can get! |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7843


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| 11/05/2010 7:36 AM |
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I never count on keeping the birds, especially with puppies. I also work the find, point and then let them chase. The chase builds the excitement for the dog. Later when they are more mature I work on being steady. I prefer not to let the dogs catch the birds which is why I usually use pigeons as they can fly well as opposed to pen raised Quail which may not be flyers depending on how they are raised. All that said, it is probably inevitable that the dog will catch a bird and as pixie said, turn it into a training opportunity. Whatever you do everything about the early introduction of a bird should be positive, so not corrections when you first start working birds. As for buying the birds, I have been lucky and the two places I train have birds on hand that I can purchase, so I have never had to buy early. Our club though gets birds the day before for Hunt Tests and Field Trials and provides water for the birds. Those birds are used starting early the next morning. Any leftovers the members who raise quail usually keep. The dead birds usually go in a cooler and are either cleaned, grilled and eaten that evening or are frozen and are used later for training. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Splat Illinois (Northern)
 MH Posts:3136


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| 11/05/2010 8:07 AM |
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| I plan on just bringing them back to my house or my parents...I am gonna get them from a vizsla breeder that also raises quail...to work her dogs is my guess...another question would a vizsla hunt similar to a gsp? I need to call them and get more info maybe they even have an area I can work the dogs right there... |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7843


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| 11/05/2010 8:17 AM |
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Vizslas are Gun Dogs/Pointing Breeds too and run in the same hunt tests, field trials, etc as GSPs. They were breed to be versatile dogs much like the GSPs, just from a different country. In fact, my boy, Ringo, has been braced with Vizslas several times at Hunt Tests. Vizslas are very nice dogs and if I wasn't already sold on GSPs I might have Vizslas. If you are thinking that you might be able to train together, absolutely. Other pointing breeds that you will see in hunt tests, field trials, etc are the setters (Irish, English, Gordon), Griffons, Spinones, Vizslas, Brittainys, etc. Here is a link to a list of pointing breeds in Wikipedia. Note that not all of the these breeds are recognized by the AKC. However, they are all pointing breeds and are used to hunt upland birds and in some countries game. Note that these breeds may have different hunting styles and you will certainly find differing opinions about how these breeds hunt, but they are all Gun Dogs.
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Splat Illinois (Northern)
 MH Posts:3136


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| 11/05/2010 8:26 AM |
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| This is great to know! It is funny cuz I have a lot of german back ground in my family and my husband has lots of hungarian so I had told him about the vizsla and now he wants one, LOL! It will also be great to know someone close by with a pointing dog that I can get tips from! |
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everbell Kanata, ON
 MH Posts:3166


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| 11/05/2010 8:30 AM |
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I'm like Bev, if not a GSP, Viszlas would be my second choice, followed by Weimies  |
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Joce and Rich Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs) Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats) The Everbell Adventures |
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mrspwgunny Long Island NY
 MH Posts:250


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| 11/05/2010 9:13 AM |
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| So funny... Vizsla was our first choice, we could not find a breeder that had pups when we were ready. They seem smaller,but we made the right decision! GSP's are the BEST! |
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Rose
 MH Posts:362

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| 11/05/2010 6:17 PM |
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Posted By pixie bee on 11/05/2010 6:07 AM
My general opinion is that once (most dogs)a dog comes to the realization that a shot produces a bird/retrieve for them, they are anticipating the noise.There is that connection. I don't do specific gun intros. We shoot a lot and the dogs learn what it means thru association.
I couldn't have described it better! This is exactly what Casey has learned: gun shot = bird. It seems like association is how he figures out everything and anything. |
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Phillyo118 UK
 MH Posts:681


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| 11/09/2010 6:54 AM |
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Just an update for you all. I went home at the weekend to see my parents with Bentley and Sarah and whilst we were there we went out for a number of walks on the evening. The first night we got there (5th of Nov) we walked round the local village and there were hundreds of whizzes, pops and bangs. He did great! Looked up a couple of times then looked to me, I just ignored the sounds and he carried on. By the end of the walk he didn't bat an eye when a firework went off almost above us. After that went to the local Council ran Fireworks Display. This thing was HUGE! We didn't get too close, perhaps 1/4 mile away but the fireworks on display were so big you could FEEL the bang when it went off, not just hear it. Bentley hid behind me for the first 10 min but after a little while someone's little head was pushing it's way between my legs to watch what was going on. Again, really happy with him. He was happy to go home though, but it's a big step in the right direction. The next night we were in the house just watching tv with more bangs and pops going on outside and he didn't even look up. Just chiled out on his bed in front of the fire happy as can be. All in all i'm really happy with the little guy going to buy a cap gun and keep up the training with him till he is totally desensitised to the bang, then start introducing treats when the bang goes off so it becomes a good thing too  |
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"From the dog's point of view, his master is an elongated and abnormally cunning dog."
"My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am." |
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everbell Kanata, ON
 MH Posts:3166


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| 11/09/2010 7:16 AM |
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| Wish we had a "like" button. Good job to all of you! |
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Joce and Rich Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs) Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats) The Everbell Adventures |
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