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Phillyo118 UK
 MH Posts:681


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| 11/03/2010 12:34 AM |
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Decided it was time to see how Bentley would react to loud bangs, what with bonfire night coming up soon etc.
Well, not good was the answer. I set off a couple of fireworks at the back of the garden with Bentley sat near the front with Sarah. He wet himself and ran inside. It took me most of the rest of the day just to get him to come back out into the garden. Not how I envisioned it!
Any suggestions on how best to get him over being scared of loud bangs? I did cut the grass yesterday with a new petrol lawnmower for the first time and he was scared of that but I forced him to stay outside and after ten min he was romping around wanting to play with it.
Would forcing him to stay outside for more bangs do the same thing? Maybe starting at a greater distance and working closer? |
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"From the dog's point of view, his master is an elongated and abnormally cunning dog."
"My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am." |
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CL66
 MH Posts:419


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| 11/03/2010 1:57 AM |
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oh no poor bentley. they really can be quite wussy for gundogs can't they, mine's scared of the pops bubblewrap makes! was he definitely scared of the bang, and not the lights of the firework, maybe the combo of flashing lights and bangs scared him? though if it was during the day i guess the ligths wouldn't be that noticeable. bonfire night itself may do the trick,after the initial scare of the noise he'll just get used to it, especially if you guys ignore both the noise, and him if he's being pathetic. |
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JMSGunner Bucks County, PA
 MH Posts:785


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| 11/03/2010 2:50 AM |
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A lot of people have told me a lot of different things... Luckily Gunner being around quads and dirtbikes all the time he got used to the occasional backfires and so far has ignored the sound of a shotgun. (well plus we live on the same road as the state gamelands and the farmer behind us shoots a lot) Anywho. Obviously everyone is going to have a different opinion but one that I kept hearing was start very far away from the dog with blanks or a .22 and shoot behind your back - have Sarah (or whoever) praise the holy crapola out of Bentley whenever the gun is shot. Eventually you'll work your way towards Bentley and then not have to shoot behind your back. Obviously you may not actually end up fully acheiving this in one time - I'd probably work on it over time. And you slowly move up to using a shotgun instead of the blanks... ya know? I don't think ignoring him is the best bet...? A lot of people think going to a gun range and leaving their dog in the car is a great idea to get them introduced to the gun.... WRONG! The dog isn't being praised for hearing the gun fire and you'll probably just scare the bejesus out of him! (This is how my breeder said he sees a majority of the dogs that come in gunshy to his training facilities) Well that's my 2 cents but I'm sure some others can offer you some different, if not better techniques. I'm still new to the whole having a gundog thing myself.  |
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Jackie & Gunner
Impressive Gewehr von Catskill 4/19/2010
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Splat Illinois (Northern)
 MH Posts:3136


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| 11/03/2010 4:13 AM |
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Sundya night my husband did mounted shooting so mine heard the guns....probably a much louder gun than a hunting gun at that...I started outside of the barn with the dogs while they shot and then moved the dogs inside...Striker was fine but Blitz didn't like it (Blitz had been around the guns when he was a puppy about Striker's age but it was all outside and he was fine)...So I am not sure if Blitz developed a fear due to not having heard them in a long time or because inside it is very loud and they shoot 6 times in a row with balloons popping...So I didn't want to keep scaring him so the dogs got put in the horse trailer...I am sure they could still heard the shots, but when I let them out Blitz wasn't scared (he wasn't scared when I had him out of the barn either and the shot went off)...My husband has more ammo so we can work with Blitz at home...he can shoot out back and I can have Blitz out front and we can see how close we can or can't get...I can have Striker out back with one of my boys just so he can keep hearing it since he didn't care... I also looked up gun shot mp3's online and I have been playing them really loud. I wish I could buy a hunting DVD that had gun shot sounds and I could play that for the dogs! http://www.blackberrythemepark.com/2009/free-gun-shot-mp3-sounds/ |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 11/03/2010 5:42 AM |
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I hope anyone with any type of dog reads this post and learns from it. Distance is only part of the equation - DISTRACTION is the key component. The dog must not only be distracted but totally into play/prey drive AND when the dog leaves this drive,due to the extra stimuli, the handler must be aware and looking for the signs and immediately bring the dog back into play/prey. A dog can only be in one drive at a time. They switch back and forth rapidly, which is where we have the advantage to switch them back. I would keep him away from intentional loud noises for about a month and in the meantime, get him really,really into a favorite game. Then one day, when he is really into this favorite game, at a distance, say 200', pop a plastic bag. If OK, pop it repeatedly. Over a period of a few days move closer. If he wants to run to you and investigate, let him. Increase the noise as you see he is acclimating. What you need to be looking for is recovery time. You can fix this. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Splat Illinois (Northern)
 MH Posts:3136


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| 11/03/2010 6:02 AM |
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I wasn't too worried since I didn't really have the distraction for the dog and his recovery was very quick...he also didn't try to run away...he just turned into me (he was already sitting by me) and my son said he closed his eyes and kind of got the shakes, but as soon as the shooting stopped he was fine...and I only let him do that once and I took him and put him away...didn't want to keep scaring him... My good news is I found someone very close by that raises Vizslas and quail and can sell me some quail that I can bring home and mess around with the dogs at home on birds...so I hope to do some reading to figure out just what to do with the quail and the dogs....then maybe they will be very into the quail and we can get some shots off...I know Blitz really has some kind of drive for hunting cuz their was a squirrel in the front yard and he stood at the window watching it and got so excited he had the shakes! Plus whenever he is out back or at the dog park all he does is run around looking for stuff....he rarely plays with other dogs at the dog park cuz he likes the tall grass area where he can search...so I hope that he will be so excited about the quail that the gun won't phase him... |
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Gunnar
 MH Posts:288


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| 11/03/2010 6:31 AM |
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| Awesome post Pixie. |
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Phillyo118 UK
 MH Posts:681


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| 11/03/2010 7:03 AM |
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Thanks guys. With it being fireworks night soon i'll just leave him in the room with me while they're going off and ignore them and him. See how he gets on, if he gets THAT distressed then i'll turn on some music/tv to drown them out. I'm sure he'd be ok in time. He was scared of me shutting the kitchen doors loudly to begin with but doesn't bat an eye lid anymore so i think it'll just take a little time for him to do it.
Jackie, I don't have a gun so i can't really fire blanks. Guns are very hard to come by in this country and we have very tight licencing for them. Maybe a small cap gun from a toy shop? About the best we can do. I think some gunshot MP3's might be good.
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"From the dog's point of view, his master is an elongated and abnormally cunning dog."
"My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am." |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 11/03/2010 7:31 AM |
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Splat, the sensitivity levels are bred in each dog. We can work with it,tho. What I have noticed is that independent and bold dogs are rarely sensitive (don't be fooled by the unruly,untrained beast that jumps on strangers,etc.). If someone is not sure how to read the sensitivity I would suggest not to over handle/train a dog. This may lead to dependency, which may lead to lack of confidence,which may lead to poor coping skills. A startled reaction is not a bad thing. Until a dog associates the noise with a really great reward, such as a bird,tennis ball,etc, they have no idea what to make of it. Good for you guys that you found birds. Quail are a good bird to start with and they are cheaper. We just hold them, give them a good shake and throw them into cover.They usually stay put or don't go far. You could work them on a check cord or if the pointing is pretty staunch off lead. There are several ways to teach a dog how to cover a field and handle birds. I like to walk in wide zig-zag patterns. If you walk in the middle of a wide field a young dog will sometimes choose to work one side more than the other, in which case I will walk the edge,focing the dog to work to the open side. The dogs catch on pretty fast, I don't spend any real time on teaching a dog to seach a field. I expect search to be in the dog, if not it's time to look for another dog. Gunner, thanks. I am intrested in dog psychology and how it relates to temperment and soundness. I see it as an intregral part of any breeding program. Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Splat Illinois (Northern)
 MH Posts:3136


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| 11/03/2010 7:54 AM |
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Thanx for the info! I have no idea if my dogs will really point or not...the other day at the dog park I think Striker did a real point and he held for a long time till I told him to come, not a clue what he pointed, though when I walked back to where he was pointing towards there was a dead mouse, maybe that is what he smelled? Blitz has done some points but he never holds them so I definatly will need to start both on the check cord. I keep reading all the forum info here and mentally preparing for working on hunting...i know my husband and I will never be great hunters at this point and we are just looking for something we can do together and get the dogs out so hunting is a good choice, now to learn how, LOL! Blitz is very clingy to me in the house however whenwe go outside he is off and searching....like at the dog park in the huge grassy area as soon as I open the gate to go in he is off to the other end and he will come back and check in but he does not have to be in my site....Striker right now stays within site, but I have noticed he keeps getting further and further out...which I am allowing...though I think that if I were really out hunting my instincts would be to want the dogs insight though I know it isn't needed, but it would be my "maternal" instincts, LOL! |
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JMSGunner Bucks County, PA
 MH Posts:785


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| 11/03/2010 8:19 AM |
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| Thanks for the additional great info! |
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Jackie & Gunner
Impressive Gewehr von Catskill 4/19/2010
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7855


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| 11/03/2010 8:41 AM |
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pixie is spot on with her posts. The only other thing I would add is if you get a response and a slow recovery then you are too close, so move further away.
Splat - When you introduce Blitz to the quail be sure you don't scare him with a flapping bird or let the bird hit him with a flapping wing (you can dizzy the bird to prevent flapping). Keep Blitz back from the bird and get him excited about the bird and make sure he is down wind and gets a good nose full of scent, and then flush the bird and let him chase and have fun. I wouldn't even get too worried if he catches the birds at first. Let him have fun. Does your friend have pigeons too? That is what most of the shorthair folks here start out with because they fly better and are cheaper than quail. The only caution with a pigeon is they are bigger so we dizzy them so they are not flapping around.
I am going out to a hunt club in a few weeks with the intent to join. It is pretty close to me and I can take as many dogs as I want out there and train. They have birds and any equipment I might need. They also allow hunting on their property, so I can actually take the dogs out their on a hunt too. Not like wild birds, but it is close so I can get out their on the weekends. Right now the place I take Ringo, which is wonderful, is pretty far away, so I end up having to leave him so they can work with him during the week, and it is hard for me to get back there on weekends to work with him. So, I am hoping I have found a good solution with this new place.
Good luck on your training. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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gharner Middletown, PA
 MH Posts:565


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| 11/03/2010 10:44 AM |
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| Ok, here's a question...maybe I just missed it. If you get a really good response from a distance like lets say at 200' your dog has no idea a shot even went off, is it ok to move closer during that session? And if so how close is too close in one training session? I'm just getting ready to start Dax with gunshot desensitization. As a younger pup I would pop bags in the house, clap my hands, and knock on his metal bowl really loud when it was time to eat. He generally seems to ignore loud noises including fireworks, thunder, and shooting at the gun range over the hill from us. |
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oneal3337 Great Falls, Mt
 MH Posts:107

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| 11/03/2010 11:02 AM |
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| Pixie's post is spot on. I wouldn't startle my dogs by surprising them with loud noises. Your goal is to condition them to the gun not desensitize them to every loud, unexpected noise. We use a cap gun to start our dogs so they learn to associate the gun and the noise it makes with birds and the pleasure they bring. I would never use any kind of fireworks or firecrackers. We hunt our dogs 4-5 five days a week and they love the sound of a gun but come 4th of July they're hunkered down under our bed. If unsure on how to proceed buy a video. |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7855


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| 11/03/2010 11:04 AM |
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| gharner - Yes you move closer and how close depends on the dog. I usually move in something like 10 - 15 feet or so. I also only do a few times then stop, ending the session, and play with the dog. I also always end on a success. I keep the session fairly short and exciting for the dog. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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MelB
 MH Posts:1217


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| 11/04/2010 6:08 PM |
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| so how would one condition a dog to ANY loud noise? I had issues with Xara in agility class tonight with the thunk of a board on the floor. She came totally unglued, would not respond to me at all, would not take treats etc. I took her outside away from the noise for a bit, then attempted to return to the inside again. She immediately freaked again. I tried heel work, tried making her sit, you name it, but she did nothing more than spin in circles and drag me around attempting to get out of the building. *sigh* |
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been far east
 MH Posts:293


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| 11/04/2010 6:51 PM |
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| I have a old dog training movie and the guy puts a metal garbagel lid in his puppy kennel .It hands about 4 inches from the ground on a cable .When the puppys run around it bangs and they dont even mind it. MELB Try putting her in a flat down and just pet her over and over from nose to ears to tail until she sighs this should take her out of this state of mind of being scared BRING A FUN TOY AND JUST PLAY! PLAY! PLAY ! (been far east ) |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7855


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| 11/04/2010 8:38 PM |
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| MelB - when you go back in how close are you to the teeter? When I train agility I spend allot of time conditioning my dog to the thunk. The way I do it takes two people, I handle my dog and I get someone to thunk the teeter. I start pretty far away from the teeter and get my dog interested in me with food, toy, whatever. I then have the other person cause the thunk with the teeter. If I get a reaction, I move further away, not reaction I may repeat or I may move closer and repeat. It can take a while to get the dogs used to the noise, but don't get in a hurry. The other thing I do, using a baby teeter not too far off the ground, I put cheese on the end that will drop and with my hand in the dogs collar I walk them slowly down the teeter controlling the tipping. The dog is interested in the cheese and isn't overly concerned about the tip. Also, at the place I train we are very careful with the use of the teeter when new dogs are around. We do not use it unless those new dogs are far away as we do not want to unnecessarily scare them. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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CL66
 MH Posts:419


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| 11/05/2010 3:09 AM |
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| Good luck tonight Phillyo, lots of bangs, hope bentley gets used to it quickly. |
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Phillyo118 UK
 MH Posts:681


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| 11/05/2010 3:57 AM |
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I'm going to take him out for a walk tonight and just ignore them and him. I've been reading up a lot and the general consensus is not to react to his behaviour, especially if it's fear or panic. I tried playing some firework videos from youtube VERY loud (i have a 500w sound systm on my pc) plus some gunshot sounds too. He didn't even blink. Just stood and stared at the pc with his head cocked to one side. Yet 20min later a few quiet pops came from outside and he was up and huffing and barking in no time but wasn't cowering. Well, we'll see how it goes. I'll keep you posted  |
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"From the dog's point of view, his master is an elongated and abnormally cunning dog."
"My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am." |
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