billy d
Posts:6
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| 05/28/2010 2:44 PM |
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hello, im new here but have been looking here for a while, we have 3 GSPs and have just had a litter of pups, what length should the tails be docked at, ive been searching around and am getting differnt answers, when i figure out how to upload the pics ill put them on here, thanks |
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dieterthegsp
Cape Breton, NS, Canada
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Posts:559
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| 05/28/2010 3:01 PM |
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From the AKC....
The tail is set high and firm, and must be docked, leaving approximately 40% of its length.
ummm...shouldnt your vet know this? Also..if the pups are already born..dont you think you waited a little to long to figure this out? |
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boognish
Idaho
MH
Posts:105
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| 05/28/2010 3:23 PM |
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| I've always wondered about the pros and cons of tail docking. I know that it's supposed to help keep my dog's tail from getting all beat up in the brush while hunting, but I've owned other breeds of hunting dogs and they never had any issues with tail damage. The whole process seems a little barbaric to me. Perhaps someone can give me some good justification for this practice? |
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billy d
Posts:6
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| 05/28/2010 3:48 PM |
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| the vet said they knew i was just asking to make sure, the pups were just born today so thanks for the help |
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dieterthegsp
Cape Breton, NS, Canada
MH
Posts:559
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| 05/28/2010 4:46 PM |
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ok good...some pics would be nice!
I would love for Dieter to have a full tail....the sad part is most tail docking is done for cosmetic reasons. For working breeds I can understand. A tail injury is much more painful down the road (if it ever happens) then a tail being docked when the dog is 2 days old. I thought I read somewhere that their nerve endings are not developed in their tails at a few days old. In my opinion im not opposed to tail docking..but I think its a lot less important then we are all taught to believe....but hey...its cant be half as bad as being circumcised! haha |
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singltrak
Las Cruces, NM
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Posts:1149
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| 05/28/2010 5:37 PM |
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Take the tail and hold it out. You will see where there is a taper about halfway down. That is normally where we dock, but it depends also on if the tail is solid liver or if there is white on the end. If the white is close to where you should dock then make it a bit longer so that you will have the white tip...a great help in the field, btw. I mark my tails with a pink marker/or blue...something that is not a regular color...so that my vet can see where I would like them docked.... Pull the skin of the tail toward the pup and score thru the skin, twist and glue...
It can really be a crap shoot on deciding where to dock, but longer is much better than too short. Messes up the balance of the dog, IMNSHO.
As far as whether or not to dock, of course that is your opinion, but consider the breed standard (not necessarily just cosmetic if you have ever dealt with a torn tail or a broken one).
Breeding a litter can be overwhelming and quite often things come up at the last minute (including docking). I've been very fortunate to have a fellow breeder and mentor not far from me who has docked tails when not out on the field trial circuit...
Good luck to you with your new furtribe and its nice to have you on the board.
Expecting a litter myself at the end of June, so gotta start getting things ready this long weekend...
Phyllis and the Singltrak Furtribe
www.singltrakshorthairs.net |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
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Posts:7922
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| 05/28/2010 6:22 PM |
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Phyllis that is the best explanation I have heard on where to dock the tail. Great timing since Halo is going to meet Buddy most likely late next week. Can't wait to see pictures of your litter.
billy d - Welcome to the forum. Would love to see some pictures.
For those who had never seen a broken tail on an adult dog and worked to get it to heal you would not even ask about docking. Not a pleasant thing and very painful for the adult dog. If they have to amputate the tail as an adult that is also very painful and also difficult to heal. I use the word amputate because it is like removing another limb once they are adults. As puppies it is no big deal. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
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Almost Heaven GSP
Springfield, WV
MH
Posts:732
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| 05/28/2010 7:36 PM |
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Council of Docked Breeds
I think anyone that wants answers to their questions, can find those answers on the above site. "Barbaric" is allowing an injury that is preventable.
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Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.
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Almost Heaven GSP's
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3154
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| 05/29/2010 5:06 AM |
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| To compare the tail of a GSP to a lab by saying other hunting breeds don't dock tails well the labs tail is much thicker than the skinny GSP tail so it holds up so much better. I am not 100% sure on this since I have never seen a GSP with a long tail but from photos is looks like the undocked GSP tail is longer than a labs tail too.... |
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snips
n.ga.
MH
Posts:413
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| 05/29/2010 8:28 AM |
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We do ours a hair over half. Could have done without the pic!!!!!! |
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brenda |
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revlistless
Illinois
MH
Posts:286
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| 05/29/2010 11:20 AM |
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Posted By Almost Heaven GSP on 05/28/2010 7:36 PM
Council of Docked Breeds
I think anyone that wants answers to their questions, can find those answers on the above site. "Barbaric" is allowing an injury that is preventable.
I am glad you posted this pic. I think that sometimes people forget that hunting dogs have been breed to do a job. There has been a few years of research to design these dogs to be efficient at their job. I have seen the tails of dogs schredded by thick underbrush and it is sad.
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dieterthegsp
Cape Breton, NS, Canada
MH
Posts:559
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| 05/29/2010 12:12 PM |
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| In no way is it barbaric. Is open heart surgery barbaric? I completely agree its the best option for a working dog but are there not breeds that dock purely for cosmetic reasons? The dobie comes to mind..their tails are docked and ears cropped to make them look "mean" and less like a cute puppy. |
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
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Posts:3154
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| 05/29/2010 1:20 PM |
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| Actually for the dobie and boxer....I believe they dock tails and ears so that if they do get into a fight someone can't grab a hold of them by the tail or ears....I mean a fight like they are guard a home and someone breaks in...not a dog fight... |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
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Posts:7922
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| 05/29/2010 2:05 PM |
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I do not know of a breed where docking or cropping was done purely for cosmetic reasons when each of those breeds was developed. However, that said the jobs that many of the dogs were originally bred for are no longer around or important and some of those dogs have evolved to different roles. Which may be why some folks think that the cropping or docking is for cosmetic reasons. The Dobe is a good example of this as many are kept as pets today. However, they were bred to not only guard, but to do search and rescues and the following paragraph explains why with these jobs in mind cropping is important.
A Doberman’s ears are naturally floppy so without surgery it's ears will not stand up. There are two primary reasons for cropped ears, and both have to do with FUNCTION. The first is that a neatly cropped ear is less of a "handle" for an attacker to hang on to. Since the Doberman has been bred to be a personal protector, a cropped ear gives the dog a decided advantage in a confrontation with a perpetrator. The second has to do with sound "localization". An erect earred dog can localize the source of a sound to within a 5 degree cone, whereas a drop earred dog can only localize a sound source to within a 20 degree cone. Since Dobermans do SEARCH AND DETECTION as well as SEARCH AND RESCUE, cropped ears are a decided advantage. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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revlistless
Illinois
MH
Posts:286
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| 05/29/2010 2:10 PM |
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Posted By Splat on 05/29/2010 1:20 PM
Actually for the dobie and boxer....I believe they dock tails and ears so that if they do get into a fight someone can't grab a hold of them by the tail or ears....I mean a fight like they are guard a home and someone breaks in...not a dog fight...
I do believe you are correct. Boxers were use to hunt large animals (including bears so i have read), and bull bait. In both cases extra ears, and tails can get in the way. Plus the shorter tail allows them to turn faster. |
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Hummingbird Hill Manor's Adelaide
Hummingbird Hill Manor's Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds
Hummingbird Hill Manor's Fritz |
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Willowglen
Fort Collins, CO
MH
Posts:216
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| 05/29/2010 6:09 PM |
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While I am not personally a fan of cropping, I think it is important that if we want to maintain our right to dock tails in OUR breed, we must stand united with all owners/breeders of breeds that either dock or crop. If we don't stand together, we will lose the battle against the animal rights activists/PETA/HSUS. Just my two cents.
One question that has been running through my head since my last dog show - has there ever been an AKC champion with an undocked tail? I ask because what happens if you import from a country that has disallowed docking? While our standard says that the tail MUST be docked, it does not list it as a DQ. I would assume that it would then be considered a serious fault that a dog would have to overcome. For those that show in the UK, what are the rules for importing a puppy that is to be shown? Can an import be shown with a docked tail? I'm going to assume the answer is yes since I know of a recent gundog group winner who is from the US. I couldn't find any rules about it except that they are still allowing working dogs to have their tails docked, but how do you prove that a 3 day old puppy is going to grow up to be a working dog? BTW, after seeing all of Shelley's pictures and video's of Hogan, I would love to have an undocked GSP, just don't know if my coffee table can handle it! |
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Christine
Willow Glen GSPs & Weimaraners
www.willowglengsp.com
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sheilak
Rocklin, CA
MH
Posts:269
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| 05/29/2010 10:28 PM |
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| I have had both Labs and Shorthairs, and a Shorthair/Lab cross who was built like a GSP, acted more like a GSP and had a skinny long tail like an undocked GSP tail would look like, and let me tell you that tail was a weapon, ouch...what a whip !! you had to stand clear of her when she wagged her tail, Shorthairs wag like no other creature on earth, so I think it is a good thing to dock their tails. They still have little tails to wag, and they wont get themselves hurt in the field, nor will they hurt their people. |
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cdansan
Northwestern, Vermont
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Posts:130
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| 05/30/2010 4:53 AM |
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I have a flatcoat retreiver that we hunt with along side the gsp. we have had 2 broken tails and numerous cuts to the tail.
I will tell you that a broken tail is extremely painful for the dog, he whimpered and whined for days. Could not sit or lie down comfortably. He just walked around all day long whining.
A docked tail is the way to go for a working dog. |
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snips
n.ga.
MH
Posts:413
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| 05/30/2010 6:22 AM |
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How did this turn into a discussion about whether we should be docking, the guy just wanted help on the length to dock..  |
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brenda |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7922
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| 05/30/2010 9:41 AM |
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| Some of the other posters had questions about the pros and cons of docking. I think that is how it got diverted. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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