Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.

As Toni said, both the dogs we saw yesterday actually looked well muscled, if not stocky.

It's so hard. The ringcraft people tell you there is one way of doing things, the obedience people tell you another. God knows what happens when you throw agility in there... or flyball

It's hard to trust myself when I know I am not experienced, but I think I am beginning to trust my intuition with Hogan.

I'm sure he would probably adapt and cope mentally without his off leash walks, but I don't think it would be fair on him. He has been off leash walking since he could reliably recall (so about 12 weeks), although we also do do a lot of on-leash walking to make sure he is polite and doesn't pull. (Finally getting there after weeks and weeks of frustration ).

I think I am going to continue with the off leash walks because first and foremost, above showing, I want him to be a healthy, fit dog who has a long and fulfilling life. If I have to restrict his off leash walking (his favourite thing!) because a show judge tells me he is too lean, then I guess the showing will be out the window

I didn't buy him as a show dog even if he is bred that way, and we are doing this for fun... so i'm going to stop trying to keep everyone happy and make ourselves happy, and HAVE FUN

 pixie - You don't have to conform to win in the show ring.  I didn't conform and was still able to finish my girl.  Or course, I had to find the judges that judged the dog and nothing else.  My girl is also a very nice bitch that some judges really liked.  As I have said before I was told over and over two things when I started: 1) I had to wear a dress if I ever hoped to finish Halo, and 2) I had to have a pro handler to finish Halo.  Well, first I quit wearing dresses a while back and I wasn't about to change that for a dang dog show.  So my response to the folks that said I had to wear a dress, was "Oh well, I guess we won't finish then, but we sure will have some fun." As for having a pro handler, that defeated the purpose of showing in the first place which was to give me something fun to do with Halo. So again my response was "Oh well, then I guess I won't finish Halo, but we sure will have fun."

Glad I was right and they were wrong because Halo deserved that CH on her name.  Just goes to show though that I am a real bull headed, stubborn, persistent, and ornery person  and all those folks that told us we wouldn't win, were just mean spirited or ignorant or both.

"...hunt for 6hrs every day but unless you train
specifically for that to build up staminer, then what dog could?"

Training plays a roll, the most important factor is how a dog is put together. Typically - I did write typically -  a show bred dog is not bred with field in mind. I buy dogs and enter the DKV,within this system a dog must be built correctly and perform to a standard. I don't want to imply that every dog that qualifies is a dog I would want or breed to, it is a system where the dogs are bred for the original intent of the breed, which demands correct conformation and performance ability go hand in hand.

I think Hogan is a well put together young dog and I think you will have success with good muscle tone. Keep doing what you are doing with him and then you can say what Bev said.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. I think I have my answer.

Just to add a little update, we went to a ringcraft class tonight (fourth time). I think he has improved but I will see what you guys think. I have been doing a lot of work with him, standing him up (stacking him) in really obscure places (mid walk for instance ) and making him hold it.

Hogans first ringcraft (for comparison)

Tonight at ringcraft

Amen to that. Dogs need to run, especially GSPs.Give him a stick of butter every night before you restrict all of his fun.