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Subject: Eye opening day today
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ShelleyUser is Offline
Bristol, UK
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05/03/2010 12:51 PM  

Well, today we took Hogan to his first "show", to soak up the atmosphere and for me to watch a few classes.

It was an open show, so not massive, but it was really busy.

Hogan was a little star, his walking on a loose lead is coming along great now (finally) thanks to a choke chain, it really seems to have made a difference, and he spent most of the time walking relaxed at my side, or sitting down next to me watching the dogs in the ring.

I met a friend there who shows GSP's, and she has several show champions (so knows her stuff). She, actually, was the reason I went. She met Hogan, and had a bit of a play with him. It was great to see him stacked by someone knowledgable instead of by the numpty who usually does it (me !).

Here is a little clip:

She then said that one of the ladies on the commitee wanted to meet Hogan, and she loved him too. She said he had a lovely head, and good "angulation"

Anyway, we talked a little more, and they were advising me on how I should move forward with Hogan. Now, I do tend to take people with a pinch of salt, because the ringcraft people believe thats ALL your dog should do, so do the obedience people, and so on. So they told me that first off, I should give up obedience, and doing  both in one week is too much.

Thoughts? I personally don't agree. Hogan is great at both - we have a "ringcraft" lead and an obedience lead, they are held in different places, so he DOES know the difference. In the beginning, it was hard because he kept trying to sit, but it's a lot better now, especially as we have done a lot more work on the stand.

Secondly, the said I needed to put more weight on him, and build him up. She said I should be aiming to get his ribcage down level with his elbow. She said it would be a good idea to add raw tripe to his feed. What are peoples opinions on this?

Thirdly, she asked how much I exercised him. I said he gets between 30 minutes each day off leash, and 10 mins on leash. She said this is WAY too much, that he shouldn't be running off leash at all. In fact - they both said that he shouldn't be running off leash until he is at least 8 months, this will make him too lean and stringy for showing. What are peoples opinions on this? Obviously if I am doing too much I really want to know now so I can correct it! I want to do what is best for him.

Anyway, here is a little pic for you. Lyn (my friend) brought two of her dogs, and Hogan was slightly bemused by them.

 

Mum, THEY LOOK LIKE ME!

ShelleyUser is Offline
Bristol, UK
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05/03/2010 1:06 PM  
Forgot to add, there is a championship show on July 4th she has convinced me to enter Hogan into (minor puppy class), it's 3 weeks after he is old enough to show.
The only way she managed to pursuade me was saying that if I chickened out, she would take him in...!
lfbUser is Offline
UK
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05/03/2010 1:07 PM  
The small world of GSPs - I know Lyn from showing (and we used to go to ringcraft together when Tetley was a puppy). I thought it was her in the video!

FWIW - we used raw tripe to get boy dog's weight up when he was younger. He loved it and it seemed to work.
ShelleyUser is Offline
Bristol, UK
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05/03/2010 1:09 PM  
How bizarre! I have known Lynn for years (through her daughter Hannah) - we went to pony club together when I was 12!
ShelleyUser is Offline
Bristol, UK
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05/03/2010 1:10 PM  
How bizarre! I have known Lynn for years (through her daughter Hannajavascript:WebForm_DoPostBackWithOptions(new%20WebForm_PostBackOptions("dnn$ctr619$NTForums$AF_TopicView$amQuickReply$lnkPost",%20"",%20true,%20"",%20"",%20false,%20true))h) - we went to pony club together when I was 12!
erikacarrilloUser is Offline
La Honda, CA
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05/03/2010 1:11 PM  
As far as the exercise goes, I don't think you can over exercise a GSP. Off leash time is essential for Koda, otherwise she gets extremely restless. On the weekends, she is off leash all day and still doesn't show signs of tiring out. I wouldn't sacrifice his well being just to fatten him up. Sounds like how they raise veal. I would rather feed him more and add some rich foods to put weight on him.
pixie beeUser is Offline

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05/03/2010 1:15 PM  
Shelley,

when in Rome do as the Romans do.

Or, you can do what you want,not fall prey to the snobs and be much happier.

Francine


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
ShelleyUser is Offline
Bristol, UK
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05/03/2010 1:18 PM  
The impression I was given today though, was that I am actually over exercising him by allowing him to run off leash.

Or do you think it simply means I won't achieve the "body shape" neccesary for showing? Or not?
zodiakgspsUser is Offline
NW PA
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05/03/2010 1:25 PM  
I have always exercised my guys a LOT off lead & shown, all have done very well in shows. I personally do not want a chubby, flabby dog w/o muscle tone, it does not represent IMO what the breed should be!! They are hunting dogs & should be lean, toned & look like they can do a good days hunt. (btw, I run my youngest off a quad & bike with him, he took his first major win at 7 mnths old!)
Just my opinion FWIW.
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
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05/03/2010 1:27 PM  
Hmmm, I got the same thing about you can't do both. Halo and I proved them wrong. She actually got her first obedience title (CD in Novice) before she finished her CH. At our shorthair Nationals I showed her in both conformation and obedience. She won High in Trial in obedience and showed very nicely in breed (stiff competition with lots of known breeders and handlers). I was not expecting to win anything in the conformation ring, so I was happy with just what she did. I still show her as a CH of record and we are working on our next level of obedience title. Never have had an issue. Quite the contrary, some of that obedience training helped. BTW I heard the same thing with Ringo and hunt training and obedience. He is doing both with no problems. Once they figure out the drill about sitting they are fine. Now my personal opinion is that the folks that make the statement about obedience and conformation or hunting and conformation, don't want to put in the training cycles to work their dogs through the difference (guys this is just my opinion so don't shoot me).

I don't agree on no exercise. First, I don't think I could live with mine if I didn't exercise them. Second, I am willing to wait for them to develop before I show in the conformation ring. I know allot of show people love to say I got his CH before he was a year (or pick an age). To me that doesn't tell me anything about whether they are breeding stock or not, only that they were nice puppies. I have seen nice puppies though that grow up to be some not so good (conformationally) adults (or at least adults I wouldn't breed). So, I prefer to focus on fun stuff like hunting and obedience and just train conformation. I put them in a few shows early to gauge how they are doing in training and if we get points well that is icing. I then pull them out and let them grow up. It paid off with Halo as she finished in a year when I brought her back into the ring. I am still waiting for Ringo's chest to come in. He does fine in the show ring, but still looks like a gangly puppy. Since I know the line he and Halo come from are late bloomers I am waiting to seriously start showing him. If he never gets where I want him to be, well I will do obedience and hunting and save my money on conformation.

As for showing in obedience, the timeframe for that also depends on the dog. I don't rush my dogs into the obedience ring either. I wait until they are good and solid. The result is I got my oldest girls CD in three straight with placements in each, same thing with Halo. Then the only other show I showed Halo in at the Novice level was the National and she took HIT. Both Belle and Halo were over 2 YO when I started showing them in obedience. Ringo will also be over 2. The only competition I do at an earlier age is the Junior Hunter which is more natural ability. Believe me I get from people, you should be showing obedience along time before I am ready to show them, but so far my formula works for me and my dogs. I am just not in that big a hurry, and since I do it for fun, what's the rush?

As for how much you train, I am at the training center or training something almost every day. My dogs think something is wrong if we aren't training. I do from time to time take off and give them a month break. If we are making slow progress and I am getting frustrated that is a sure sign to me it is time for a break. We both come back fresh and ready to start again, and the dogs never regress. As long as you make if fun Hogan will love the training time.

Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
dieterthegspUser is Offline
Cape Breton, NS, Canada
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05/03/2010 1:41 PM  

Every person you meet is going to have a different opinion on what to do with your dog in every aspect of his life. Do what works for you. Also I think if I had to choose between off leash exercise and showing, my dog would be getting the exercise. Hogan sure has grown up quick. He looks great and you seem to be really devoted to him. He is very lucky.



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Phillyo118User is Offline
UK
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05/04/2010 4:02 AM  
Bentley generally gets at minimum 1 hour off leash exercise a day as on leash just does nothing for him and Bentley is looking great and packing on the muscle! As Dan says I'd rather have a fit healthy GSP than one that looks good "in the ring". I suppose it goes back to the likes of the German Shepherd dog that has been bred to work in the show ring but has horrendous hind legs and hip problems. He's your dog, you have him how you want him, as long as he's happy that's what's important right?

Hogan looks great, and remember he's only a baby. You don't know what he's going to look like in 6 months time. He might fill out a lot anyway.

"From the dog's point of view, his master is an elongated and abnormally cunning dog."

"My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am."
CL66User is Offline

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05/04/2010 4:14 AM  
When I began obedience with rupert i was told, and had read also, that the average is 5 mins per month old they are, twice a day. So at the moment my 4 month old is getting 40 mins a day off leash walks, plus playing with big bro. I don't think you're doing anything wrong, but have no idea if you are as far as the 'showing' world goes!

Hogan's very similar in growth (tall for his age) and shape to rupert, so when you meet him you can see what a similar type 10 month old looks like. I don't think roo's filled out enough to show yet as he's still pretty gangly. But then i'm a bit anal about not having too much weight on growing bones.
pixie beeUser is Offline

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05/04/2010 5:02 AM  
Am I the only one who finds it odd that there are those who actually time their dog's activity and monitor the activity levels?

These are hunting dogs. They are supposed to hunt 2-6 hours a (every) day on a variety of game on land and water.

Form Follows Function - definitly holds true in this discussion. (I'm sorry to say it)

Francine



"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
jlp8cornellUser is Offline
Ithaca NY
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05/04/2010 5:08 AM  
I am not surprised you got the advice you did. I hope you keep up with Hogan's obedience and also his exercise level. A lot of the show ring GSPs around here carry about 5-8 extra pounds. Honestly, they could never go out and hunt for hours like they should be able to. They are flabby and unconditioned. Sad they are the one's winning!

You have done a wonderful job with him so far......trust yourself!

Jen
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2440
CL66User is Offline

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05/04/2010 5:11 AM  
But surely it's common sense not to run a pup too hard when it's young and its bones are forming/fusing etc. In the same way it's not ideal let them jump in and out of cars or up and down stairs etc.
jlp8cornellUser is Offline
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05/04/2010 5:35 AM  
30 minutes per day off lead seems reasonable for a pup his age- not hard work. Now I agree I wouldn't have them doing something like agility where there is a lot of jumping or running them for hours at that age. A nice short run is good for the pup's mind and body.

Jen
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2440
SplatUser is Offline
Illinois (Northern)
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05/04/2010 5:57 AM  
I don't show or anything like that...but using common sense and some of my horse knowledge....I would think he needs the exercise and running and that will help build true muscle...then you just have to feed correctly for the amount of exercise he is getting and the right foods too...

Again comparing to horses...my horse is an all around horse and can do almost any type of horse event....I think training in different fields is great and as long as you are making progress then keep going. You know your dog and if he seems to be catching on then good if he seems lost you will know...

ToniUser is Offline
England
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05/04/2010 5:58 AM  

IMO - which im not sure is worth much as im very inexperienced.............but the gsp's we met yesterday at the show (which had achieved there JW, CC etc)
 were very toned well put together dogs, not flabby and unconditioned at all. I wouldnt say the were fit enough to hunt for 6hrs every day but unless you train
specifically for that to build up staminer, then what dog could?
I think as long as we (Shelley, me and Hogan) are having a good time, and enjoying life/experiences, that is all that matters :) We are very careful not to put his young bones under any undue stress,but its in his nature to have the 'ZOOMIES' as Bev calls them lol, I think its vital to his mental wellbeing to release this energy.



 

CL66User is Offline

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05/04/2010 6:16 AM  
Spot on Toni, I think if you restricted him like you were told to all 3 of you would be very miserable!
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