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Gunnar
MH
Posts:288
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| 03/10/2010 8:45 AM |
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| Soda cans. I like that. |
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Shelley
Bristol, UK
MH
Posts:704
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| 03/10/2010 8:59 AM |
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Don't worry Gunnar, you didn't upset me.
I just want to do whats right for my puppy. Funnily enough, when I do shout or punish him, the split second he stops the bad behaviour the punishment stops - I think he will then learn right from wrong.
I've never heard of an E-collar I think it must be a USA thing?
I do think my expectations of him are quite high, but I do think that that contributed to him learning potty training so early and being so quick to learn (I could be wrong - it may just be him!).
Anyway, thank you for all the advice, I really really do appreciate it, and you are all right, it is a steep learning curve for the both of us.
With regards to being alpha, am I doing the right thing? Making him sit or at least do something before I give him anything, taking toys away after play and not leaving any lying around, he comes in through the door last etc etc. |
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 03/10/2010 9:07 AM |
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Yelling at a dog, loosing your temper, simply being frustrated, these are all signs of weakness and dogs are very good at picking up on it even if the display of your emotions is fairly subtle and dogs don't follow weak leaders. As Cesar Milan says so beautifully, "humans are the only species that follows unstable pack leaders". So if you want your dog to respect you you should be calm-assertive (not passive). It's all about energy. I am not sure if you have ever watched Cesar Millan (Dog Whisperer) - I think you are in the UK? - maybe you can go online and find some episodes, it will become very clear what all of this means.
Being calm-assertive is not easy for each one of us. I have been guilty of all of the emotions listed above - what I try to do if I get that way, I stop and redirect the both of us. Example: she counter-surfs, I had a bad day and just want to explode, instead, I take a deep breath, call her off, make her come and sit, anything that I know she will do and do well and then move on.
This has worked quite well for us except for the counter-surfing - I am failing here miserably! I have tried everything, even the e-collar (like Francine said, dog must be old enough and must be conditioned to the e-collar, e-collar is definitely not an option for Hogan at this point) - nothing works. With the e-collar she eventually stops for the day but the next day she is right back at it, e-collar or not. I am pretty good at not keeping anything (dirty dishes, crumbs, spilled juice, much less actual meals) close to the counter edge but I live there so while preparing dinner it does happen and she goes for it every time. At this point I just tell her off and she goes off. Or shove her off. It sucks!
What works best is if you correct the dog BEFORE he jumps. If I see Tessa getting ready to get up there I either call her, tell her no, or when on the e-collar nick her right at that moment when she thinks about it but has not committed yet - much easier to get a response then when they are up on the counter. Even if there is nothing on the counter (and Tessa thoroughly surfs empty counters).
BTW Tessa is now 20 months old.
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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everbell
Kanata, ON
MH
Posts:3166
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| 03/10/2010 9:11 AM |
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We have tried EVERYTHING to stop the counter surfing ... even with our counters stripped bare, they both check to make sure we didn't forget. Only thing we can do is order them out of the kitchen (in an open concept area, not so easy), and as Tessa said, try to stop them before they do it. Problem is with 2 dogs, 1 is always distracting you while the other slinks into the kitchen ... sigh! And it's not like they both don't know VERY well what we are saying since they LOOK at us when they go two-footed ...
Made even harder since the dogs visit granny very often and her counters are a treasure trove!!! |
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Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures |
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Marie
Wisconsin
MH
Posts:2721
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| 03/10/2010 9:18 AM |
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 Oh !!! YOu really have to have a good hardy sense of humor when it comes to training a GSP not to counter, table surf!!
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Marie and Rocky, a tall, high energy GSP
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab18/Annette_Merryfield/100_0285.jpg?t=1287205231 |
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Gunnar
MH
Posts:288
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| 03/10/2010 9:22 AM |
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Oh and I should add for all my sound advice my guy just last night, swiped an English muffin off the counter and we didn't even know it. I'm on the couch and my wife comes in and says
" hey did you see the dog eating anything"?
Dopey me " No why"?
"well I'm missing an English muffin off the counter and I was standing right there".
Dog faithfully at my side " Burp"!
So he snuck up behind her, got up grabbed the muffin ate it and no one saw or heard anything.
Not only is he a thief but he's now a ninja! It never stops and its something we all work on and accept. Someone said it earlier they are very opportunistic and that's just the way they are. I accept that and just work with it.
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Shelley
Bristol, UK
MH
Posts:704
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| 03/10/2010 9:24 AM |
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Ahh Marie, your pics really have made my day!
Gunnar... what is an English muffin??? Would it be a normal muffin to me?  |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 03/10/2010 9:27 AM |
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tessa,
here is what I do and it works with my dogs by about Tessa's age.
First and foremost we do not allow a dog into the kitchen area when I am preparing food,a dog can only enter the kitchen area if invited(when we are in there),we do not allow an untrained dog to be in the eating area when we have food there or are eating,the dog can watch me prepare food in the kitchen but come eating time the dog is told to sit at the doorway,which in our place is pretty far from the table, or is put in their kennel. Now,this is what I do for training - I walk with food in my hand - if a dog jumps or does anything that invades my space they are kneed and told NO,at any time during the day I will wave food across the dog's mouth - if the dog goes fo it they are told NO and put on a command - I like 'down',at any point during the day I will throw food across the floor so it passes the dog,if the dog goes for it they are told NO and put on a command. If the training is consistent a dog picks up real fast.By fast I mean by the time they are 1 1/2.Food is very,very tempting.I know I will get flack from this,but I have smacked adog across the muzzle on more then one occasion - if a dog grabs at food likethey haven't eaten in weeks they get a slap. There is no reason for a dog to grab for food in this way. When I tret feed the dogs together,if one behaves like he owns the treats well, you can be sure you get nothing and the oter gets your portion and you ARE going to sit and watch. And if one misses their food -it falls on the floor- the other dog is NOTgoing to go for it.
Ok, you can all jump in and tell me how bad I am to my dogs - but you know what? My dogs are happy and well behaved.
And that picture of Rocky - don't you feed him?????? Just kidding!
Love the picture - a classic.
Francine
As a disclaimer_ ALL discipline is age appropriate and amount of discipline is based on need at the moment - discipline in and of itself does not imply an amount or that it is necessarliy physical.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Gunnar
MH
Posts:288
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| 03/10/2010 9:28 AM |
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| Kinda like a crumpet but not as fluffy and holes on the inside instead of out =) |
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everbell
Kanata, ON
MH
Posts:3166
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| 03/10/2010 9:34 AM |
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Ya .. pretty sure an English muffin is a regular muffin to you Brits  Our muffins in North America tend to be a cross between bread and a cupcake ... |
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Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures |
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easyedwin
Birmingham, AL
MH
Posts:128
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| 03/10/2010 9:52 AM |
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| That pic is HILARIOUS!!! It looks as if there is a pony on the table!! |
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Why do real estate developers ruin so many landscapes? |
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Marie
Wisconsin
MH
Posts:2721
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| 03/10/2010 10:16 AM |
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Just a refresher on the Negative characteristics of the German Shorthaired Pointers who are very high-strung animals quoted directly for the GOOD DOG, BAD DOG training your Dog at home Book, Authors: Mordecal Siegal &Matthew Margolis, published Feb 1973. " German Shorthaired Pointers are very high-strung animals. They are nervous, excitable dogs. Unless they are given sufficient daily exercise, it is diffcult to keep them in an apartment. Their desire to jump, combined with an accumulation of pent-up energy, results in TOTAL CHAOS!!!!!.  They will jump on furniture, jump on people, STEAL FOOD FROM THE TABLE, get into the GARBAGE, chew on anything, whether it is nailed down or not. "
The authors continue, "These are STUBBORN dogs with STRONG WILLS!! If the owner is not very firm, his animal will be a constant source of TROUBLE. These dogs require a great deal of AUTHORITY. If the owner spoils the dog he will REGRET it for the rest of the dogs life. These POINTERS must be trained AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!! If the owner waits the customary year to begin training it may BE TOO LATE!!! (Oh!!! Rocky was 12 months old when I adopted him from the Rescue  ) STRICT training should begin after the third month!!" PS: This vintage book has been a great source of knowledge for me which has enable me to understand Rocky at a deeper GSP level.
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Marie and Rocky, a tall, high energy GSP
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab18/Annette_Merryfield/100_0285.jpg?t=1287205231 |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7851
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| 03/10/2010 10:18 AM |
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I agree with pixie on this one. I am still teaching Ringo to leave food alone unless I say he can have it, but I used the ecollar on him for the counter surfing as he had become a pain about it. So, I am using a two pronged attack with him. As for Hogan, he is a baby and the mousetraps or cans should work well with him. I will say though, he is starting early so be diligent and try to stop it now. I have a feeling he is going to keep you hopping.
As for the crate, I use it for time outs when my dogs get a little wild, but not for punishment. Instead I use a very firm and commanding NO. I will say with Ringo he tests, so I sometimes have to repeat the process of correction over and over. For example, he will get something off the counter, I catch him and correct. I will sometimes put the object right back where it was and he will go right back for it as soon as I turn to walk away. Since I anticipate this behavior I have another opportunity to correct. We sometimes have to do this several times if the object is of high value to him. I just stay consistent. He has now learned that bread loafs are off limits. That took a while because it is great fun to tear open the bag and scatter pieces of bread everywhere, plus he gets to eat some too. Now he will leave the bread alone on the counter, but has moved on to other things. Lately he has been into cookies, but I think I got through to him on that one yesterday. So, you may have to stay consistent here for a while. As you can see in Ringo's mind each type of food is different. He has not made the connection that all edibles are off limits. He also is attracted to plastic bags and will grab a plastic bag even if there is not food in it because he just likes to shred plastic bags.
Experiment with different things and get creative. I know a friend who used cookie sheets on the edge of the counters very successfully. Good luck and don't let the little stinker get to you. He will test you, just be prepared. : ) |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7851
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 03/10/2010 10:39 AM |
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I have to disagree with Marie's book that she posted about. While this may be true of some shortahirs -it is by all means generalizing about the breed.Any dog of any breed can behave this way w/o proper socialization and training.
I would whole-heartedly endorse a different concept of a shortahair as a whole. As a shortahir owner I am a bit insulted with what the authors wrote and wonder at the negative experiences and stories the authors have encountered.
Francine
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 03/10/2010 10:41 AM |
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Thanks Bev.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Marie
Wisconsin
MH
Posts:2721
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 03/10/2010 11:09 AM |
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Francine: unfortunately, my place is set up in a way where it is pretty much impossible to implement part one of your advice. I could draw up a layout and post it but let me just say it's a small one-bedroom apartment with two door frames to the kitchen but no doors and two door frames out of the living room also with no doors...things flow and circle and are kinda open and I would have to work with at least three baby gates to keep her out of the kitchen and eating area (which is the living room) and that would drive ME crazy and also would limit her to the bedroom or bathroom...
However, I will work on part two of your post, and will do more food training with her. When I eat, she is not allowed anywhere near the table. I like to say that part works really well - except that while she does not beg or sneak around my dinner table, she does take advantage of me being busy eating and goes counter-surfing. I either call her off while she's on the way to the kitchen or put her in her crate, if she keeps repeating. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Shelley
Bristol, UK
MH
Posts:704
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| 03/10/2010 11:17 AM |
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| Hogan goes in is crate while we are eating ever since the day he arrived. Stops any bad bahaviour before he even thinks about it! |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 03/10/2010 11:29 AM |
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tessa,
I think either you misunderstood me or I am misunderstanding you.
Not sure so I will post again phrasing it differently. the dogs are only not allowed in the kitchen when I food is involved - if they want to come in they are sent out and w/o verbal or touch were taught to stay at the door on the outside.Samegoesforwhen food is on the dining room table and when we are eating.if we eat in another room they may enter but they must give 'personal' space.No crowding.And that's what it's really allabout - persoanl space. Haiko has not had an issue with this for years. the kids have left food in the living room coffe table and Haiko does not even care,not 1 sniff. Bregon, on the other hand, is a first class moocher.I swear he can vacuum food from 3' away! All in time,tho.
I didn't mean to prevent the dog from entering at all and the best way to do it is by getting the dog to do it b/c YOU want them to,it sets a certain mind frame and boundaries the dog eventually knows not to cross. I thinks it's called RESPECT?
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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