CL66
MH
Posts:419
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| 12/14/2009 9:45 AM |
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Had a look at a litter on saturday and was surprised to see the 3yo bitch was the same size as my 5 month old! Should I be concerned, would you buy a pup from a bitch that was not the breed standard, or does it not necessarily mean the pups would be small?
The sire is good quality.
Hmmmmmm. |
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wems2371
Eastern Iowa
MH
Posts:169
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| 12/14/2009 9:49 AM |
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Can you research any littermates of the bitch or her sire/dam? I don't think, in buying a puppy, you are buying any one dog in it's lineage--but rather it's lineage as a whole. |
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Countrysides Red Hot Roxi
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1176
Snips Bring It On Brandi
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1711 |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7841
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| 12/14/2009 9:53 AM |
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How tall was she at the withers and how much did she weigh? Also, how big was the male? Then look at the pedigree and the size of those dogs. If she was barely under the standard, maybe. For instance if I wanted an agility GSP the smaller GSPs tend to do better. Also, if she was only an inch under, again maybe. What do you want her for? If you are not going to show her in conformation why worry about it. Even if you are, the standard gives some leeway on size, although it is harder to finish an obviously smaller bitch, but not impossible. Also, look at other things in the breeding like temperament, desire, hunting ability (if that is what you are going to do with her), other performance abilities, conformation in general (besides size).
Also, a bitch can have a variety of sizes in a litter. My boy is on the upper end for males and one of his sisters is on the small side for females, both out of the same litter. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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CL66
MH
Posts:419
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| 12/14/2009 10:06 AM |
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She was about 22inches at the withers, and i'd say about 20-22 kilos. But i'd have to speak to the breeder to get an exact measurement.
I don't know what i want to do with the dogs yet, but as she's asking £650 which is $1000 and the dam is small and not hip scored i'm not sure if it's a bit much.
She's not used for anything, just a pet, but the stud dog she used was good quality as i've researched him. |
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FrancisMcGee
Ann Arbor, MI
MH
Posts:114
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| 12/14/2009 10:15 AM |
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So...20-22 kilos is about 44-48 lbs. So that would put her measurements at 22", 44-48 lbs. That IS within the AKC standard for females.
However, I would be slightly hesitant to pay $1000 for a family pet unless the pedigrees/lineage of both parents was very solid. What do GSP pups typically sell for in the UK? That could be a factor as well. Around here, a GSP with great lineage and hunting ability will sell for that much...otherwise, that seems a bit pricey.
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CL66
MH
Posts:419
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| 12/14/2009 10:21 AM |
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I know, it's really pricey, but all GSPs seem to go for that here..and that's not even with their first jags done etc. It's ridiculous, pedigree dogs are so much. I'm looking at Weims and Viszlas too and they're £850 which must be $1200 plus. Scary money.
I think that's why i'm being hesitant, cos the price is the same for any pup but the quality varies, so wasn't sure if the size of the bitch would put any of you off with more experience than me! |
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wems2371
Eastern Iowa
MH
Posts:169
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| 12/14/2009 10:28 AM |
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Do you use/show under the FCI standard there? I'm not well versed on it, but I know from some posts on other boards I've seen, that their standard is a little taller--like 23-25". I guess what I'm saying is that standard size here in the USA might be short for across the pond. |
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Countrysides Red Hot Roxi
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1176
Snips Bring It On Brandi
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1711 |
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versatilefan
Posts:7
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| 12/14/2009 10:37 AM |
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| Since you're in the UK, Check out the Birkenwald Kennels. Solid German lines with some of the top DK's in Germany, England and the US. If you're going to pay top dollar (or pound) you may as well get top quality. |
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everbell
Kanata, ON
MH
Posts:3164
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| 12/14/2009 10:56 AM |
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Our female is one of the breeder's bitches ... she is small (around 40 pounds) but she is a great mother and the breeder has been really happy with the pups she's produced (which are shown to confirmation). Raz has a great temperment and she is super bird sharp, so I guess it all depends on what you are looking for.
You might want to ask for information on previous litters she has had. |
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Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures |
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bravepoint
North Gower, ON Canada
MH
Posts:894
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| 12/14/2009 10:57 AM |
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I would be more concerned about the lack of hip Xrays. If GSps are pretty much all the same price in the UK, then I'd move onto someone else with a bitch that is within the standard and the health clearances done.
Gail |
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Gail, Moka, Avery, Terra & Rayne
Bravepoint GSPs
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CL66
MH
Posts:419
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| 12/14/2009 11:00 AM |
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| Yeah i think i will. There's not point risking it when she's not been scored..and it's her first litter so i can't even see any past pups and what they've grown into. |
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bravepoint
North Gower, ON Canada
MH
Posts:894
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| 12/14/2009 11:02 AM |
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Your current GSP is fairly young as well. The right litter will come along!
Gail |
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Gail, Moka, Avery, Terra & Rayne
Bravepoint GSPs
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7841
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| 12/14/2009 11:07 AM |
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| I agree with Gail. Unless there is a good reason for no hips, then I would question that before the size. Also, check the FCI standard for size. Here in the US we also sell pet quality dogs for less than show quality in allot of cases. Sometimes $200 to $300 less. I alos know breeders that will discount a dog (even show quality) if they know it is going to a good home. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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CL66
MH
Posts:419
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| 12/14/2009 1:35 PM |
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It's a total minefield here, people are even selling cross breeds for so much money it's ridiculous. And i'm starting to discover hip scoring doesn't even factor as these pups sell even without! I guess it's because there aren't that many being bred as they're not 'fashionable' so people pay through the nose for any old dog.
Gail, we were hoping to get another pup when ours was at least a year, but due to his awful separation anxiety we're bringing it forward so he has some company, hence starting the search now. Probably be cheaper and get a better dog by importing!! |
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bravepoint
North Gower, ON Canada
MH
Posts:894
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| 12/14/2009 1:51 PM |
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CL66,
A year or close to it is a good spacing IMO. Can you import from Europe??
Gail |
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Gail, Moka, Avery, Terra & Rayne
Bravepoint GSPs
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CL66
MH
Posts:419
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| 12/14/2009 1:58 PM |
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| I haven't looked into it before, but i think i will now as there are so few good breeders over here. A lot are households who decide to breed their pets but they have no reason do to so whatsoever and don't do the necessary checks. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 12/14/2009 2:20 PM |
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It rubs me the wrong way when someone has a bitch of no particular anything and breeds to a know stud. Like that some how ads quality to her bitch and the litter.
Not sure how much luck you would have in europe as far as testing goes.Hips are being done by the (more responsible) breeders looking for DKV admittance, but the other clearances just are not done. Mostly, the only shorthairs who really have an issue are the ones bred in America. You'll hear of a heart issue rarely,eyes hardly ever,von willerbrand also rarely.
I have heard that in Britian the shorthairs are not bred to well,on a whole,there are some well known kennels who do test. This is what you are running across in your search.
I know, what I posted is a hugh flame thrower.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Otterback
Posts:5
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| 12/14/2009 5:20 PM |
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| If you like a pup and it fills you your needs (good hunting lineage, agility, family pet) then go get its hips checked. If everything works out I wouldn't worry about it being a tad small. Here on the western prairies we prefer to run smaller, lighter dogs because they can cover more ground and last a lot longer then the bigger stockier versions. Who wants a dog that takes all day to cover a small field and then is wore out for the rest of the day. What I'm trying to say is if it passes a physical and fits your needs who cares. It's your dog and no one elses concern. |
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Marie
Wisconsin
MH
Posts:2721
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| 12/14/2009 10:33 PM |
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I can vouch with present experience of owning a large male GSP. Big size does not mean a GSP is slow and lack energy in the field. . Rocky is a track star and can travel miles in minutes when out in the field. Very high flying energy even at almost 8 years old. He can go all day and when back at home takes 45 minutes to settle his self down. Rocky lived 2 feet off the ground for the first 4 years of his life.When I first took Rocky to his first obedience classes at 15 months ,used to have to run him 7 hours in the field so he would be more calm and good in class. Big size dogs in other breeds may decide slowness and low energy, but not in the true German Shorthaired Pointer. |
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Marie and Rocky, a tall, high energy GSP
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab18/Annette_Merryfield/100_0285.jpg?t=1287205231 |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7841
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| 12/14/2009 11:01 PM |
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| I have to agree with Marie. My boy Ringo is a pretty big boy, but I have to make him stop when he is in the field. He is learning to pace himself a little better though. I think stamina has to do with allot of factors. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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