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Subject: A tragic thing
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TheLittleBlackBookUser is Offline
FL

Posts:40


07/30/2009 11:41 AM  
Posted By vale46 on 07/29/2009 11:00 AM

Well animal control came last night and took our dogs. The were deemed high risk and we have to appeal their decision. It seems the neighbor (not the owner of the dog) said I told here at a 4th of July get together that people better not any dog's come in my yard or my dog's will kill them and she also told animal control that my dogs were standing in our yard barking constantly and acting very agressive toward any body that would come near. If this goes to appeal I will make her take a lie dectector test. She is make this very personnal because she is a friend of that family. The lies keep going on and on.



 

Wow, what a shame, and what a travesty.

As someone who has actually been an insurance claims investigator for over a decade, and adjusted property claims (including many no telling how many dog bite cases), your neighbor is 100 liable for this problem. They are the ones who failed to confine their animal. Their animal was the one who came to your property. And, unless they have information/witnesses to the contrary, for all anyone knows their dog initiated the first growl or bite.

It is ridiculous to try to ascribe "morality" to animals or to judge them as "people" who make moral choices. Dogs are predators, nothing more, and the people who choose to own "domesticated predators" are required by law to confine them to their own premises. People who fail to confine their predators are responsible for any damage they do whilst roaming about. This merely sounds like a case of one predator (your neighbor's) being on the wrong side of the food chain when it ran into your predator, who was properly and legally on his own property, and that poor "bear" proved to be nothing more than a mouse

Regarding the unfortunate situation of your dogs being impounded, I don't pretend to know the laws in your state/county/city, but animal control in many places have NO right to come into your home/yard without a warrant.

I also don't know if you have turned this matter over to your insurance company, but you should. This is merely a "property damage" claim, as dogs are nothing but property, so there really isn't much to "sue" for here on either end.

But as far as who is responsible for Bear's being on your property, and being in a position to get injured, Bear's owner is the author of his/her own misfortune. And any competent investigator would conclude the same thing.

Good luck to you on getting your dogs back.


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TMerklerUser is Offline
Murfreesboro, TN
MH
MH
Posts:217


07/31/2009 8:34 AM  
Please give us an update on where things are at this time.
Have you been able to get your dogs back?


Terri (Dude's Mom 4ever)
Dude - GSP (RIP 2005)
Tyler - GSP
Charlie - GSP
Zeus - Pit-ador
MegCUser is Offline
Ellensburg, WA
MH
MH
Posts:989


07/31/2009 10:37 AM  
Also checking in for updates, and a random thought brought on by our current vermin invasion... we're now having to face leaving rat traps and poison bait out as a permanent fixture due to mice, packrats, and ground squirrels tearing up the place. Bear could just as easily have been injured or even met his demise with poison, traps, etc. in the garage. The fact that it was a dog fight that did him in is completely tangential to the real issue: they let their dog loose unsupervised to wander onto other people's property. The list of things that COULD have happened from there is endless.

Like everyone else, I'm extremely disturbed that AC has snagged your dogs. I don't know how the law works wherever you live, but in Washington I believe this would be a total dead end as far as the Bear incident is concerned. Other people subsequently baking crap up just to make a feud out of it would be tougher in our county as the law is extremely unclear, and all someone has to do is complain that they are 'disturbed'.

Megan
+ Dulcie (Lehmschlog's The Right Spot) + Rogan (Lehmschlog's BR Rogan) + Anya (Lehmschlog's Anya O Conchobar)
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DeeDee_TXUser is Offline
Houston, TX
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JH
Posts:37


07/31/2009 2:34 PM  
Just a reminder that it is best to avoid absolutes in any discussion of the law, i.e., something IS illegal, you ARE liable, etc. Those are decisions for courts to make and there is a reason that a lawyer won't give you the direct answer you want. Let's also keep in mind that America isn't as litigious as one might expect--in fact, we could be talking about criminal sanctions versus civil sanctions here. With the extreme price tag of litigation in an overburdened system we are actually seeing fewer and fewer lawsuits pop up. Criminal laws will always be enforced, and should be. If the criminal law is muck, you need to get with your legislature to fix the problem.

Also of note, Texas law is actually broader than TB indicated IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, if the trespasser has or is committing a particular crime. Right to use deadly force will extend to the curtilage (i.e., beyond the interior of the home) in these situations. If you are more interested peruse the Texas statute. http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.31.00

Of course I have to cover my own back and say that is not been to be legal advice, just a resource for you to draw your own conclusions.

Dee Dee
Ace1cappuccinoUser is Offline
Carp Lake, Michigan
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MH
Posts:1618


08/01/2009 2:26 PM  
First of all; I must say that your shorthairs is beautiful!!
No way should you feel at fault. We have had a couple scuffles here between my dogs and a neighbors. They have a pomeranian which I swear is the dumbest animal I have ever seen. They are 1/4 mile down the road from us and the dang thing keeps coming up to our place. My dogs don't like tresspassers anyways and there have been a few times they have sent it yelping back home. Never anything bad, I think they more scare it than hurt it. It was growling with Belle and Doddi.
There are so many coyotes around here and some wolves. I would just be afraid to let the little thing loose like they do. Or it could even run into a porcupine or a car.
Unless they are trying to do something to you for the incident I wouldn't worry about it. Yes it is a sad thing but not your fault!

Cornell's GSP'S- Mocha cappuccino, Lili Belle Lotte, Sir Leopold Vom Hunter 1, Lil Miss Lotte Doddi, Ace Hunter Twisted Mister(GSP'S) PhotobucketPhotobucket
zodiakgspsUser is Offline
NW PA
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MH
Posts:1059


08/02/2009 5:29 AM  
Very sorry to hear they are basically blaming your dogs for this. Unreal they took them when they were in their own yard, completely wrong IMHO. Hope everything works out & the dogs are returned.
vale46User is Offline


Posts:13


08/03/2009 7:05 AM  

Well we have not gotten them back yet and on Tuesday I am hiring an animal behavorist to look at my dogs. I was told they were guilty until proven innocent. I spoke with my attorney and he said I have to options the first let things take it course at the appeal and the second is file a lawsuit against the city, animal control, the witness, and the dog owner. At this time in our lives my wife and I can't possibly afford to do the second. The hearing is Wednesday. Our lives have been hell since this came about all because of an irresposible pet owner that relly did'nt give a crap about their dog. I think about my dogs every second of the day and the hell they are going thru.

pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4475


08/03/2009 7:32 AM  
You must miss them terribly. I have my fingers crossed for all of you.

Have you versed yourself on the law? Don't rely on a lawyer,be your own advocate. You say there was a witness?
Did this person try to enter your yard to stop what was going on or to help in anyway? If yes,what was the timing on this,what was her reaction,ect,if no,why not,did she alert anyone,ect?How did your wife discover what had happened? Who reacted with more concern,your wife or the witness?Who is the witness to Bear? Can this person be viewed as impartial,can you prove otherwise?
Your best defense is the law. Know your dog's rights. Look for loop-holes.
Having a good lawyer is important-a bad one and they still get paid but you loose.

Best of luck,if you tell us what state you are in I'm sure several members on the forum will reseach for you and maybe there is a lwayer or 2 on here willing to dish out free advice????

Francine


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
vale46User is Offline


Posts:13


08/03/2009 7:41 AM  

The witness is very partial to Bear's owners and her story just doesnt add up. She said all this a couple of days later and I think she is goofy. She is very close to the other people. No she did not show much concern for bear at all if what she says is true. We live in Iowa. My wife was the one that took bear to the vet.

MOOSE1User is Offline
Fruitport, MI
MH
MH
Posts:1789


08/03/2009 7:43 AM  

As I am very involved with the American Pit Bull Terrier breed having AC called is something that is all too well known to many people of this breed. So a post was started on another forum on what to do if AC comes calling. Here is the link :

http://www.pitbullforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=61733

It may be too late in this situation to do some of this but many in this breed have found these tips work wonderfully to keep your dog from being taken.

I am so sorry for all you are going through. Keep fighting!


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TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
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MH
Posts:2387


08/03/2009 7:50 AM  
Looks like you have to fight to get your dogs back...like Francine said, arm yourself with everything you can find and fight. And let us know if we can help - I'd be more than happy to dig into the internet and locate codes etc.

To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
vale46User is Offline


Posts:13


08/03/2009 8:02 AM  

Here is Chloe

TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
MH
MH
Posts:2387


08/03/2009 8:15 AM  
Take photos of the dogs that counteract the vicious dog image.

To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
DavyLeeUser is Offline
Raymond, Maine
SH
SH
Posts:51


08/07/2009 7:21 AM  
Any update?
vale46User is Offline


Posts:13


08/07/2009 7:47 AM  

Well we had our hearing yesterday at the Police station. We were the last to testify and I went armed with letters and I also had a report from a dog behaviorist. We went in thinking the worst and had our say and the end result is we are getting Bailey and Chloe back and they are free of all charges. The Police captain really surprised us he kept talking about responsibility city code, and common sense all of which we showed in his opinion. I am picking them up at 9:00am for a full spa treatment and for lunch Happy meals for them both. We will still have issues with the neighbors I feel when we show up with the dogs but I hope they come to their senses.

MarieUser is Offline
Wisconsin
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MH
Posts:2721


08/07/2009 7:56 AM  

Oh !! Happy Day for you and your family Hope the reunion goes well.  Congratulations on the results, but so sorry you even had to go thur such an experience. 


Marie and Rocky, a tall, high energy GSP
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab18/Annette_Merryfield/100_0285.jpg?t=1287205231
pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4475


08/07/2009 8:01 AM  
Really,really GREAT news!!!!!!



"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
dnauerUser is Offline
Colorado Springs, CO
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MH
Posts:175


08/07/2009 9:12 AM  
I am so happy to hear this. I occassionally have thought of your situation and it has bothered me. I don't envy your relationship with your neighbors going forward, so perhaps a fence (as suggested by some in this thread) is the way to go. Regardless, congratulations on a victory on something that you should NEVER have been put through. Dave

Dave in Colorado
Voyager GSPs
"If there are no dogs in heaven, when I die, I want to go where they went" -- Will Rogers
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
MH
MH
Posts:7922


08/07/2009 9:13 AM  
WooHoo!! Glad you got your babies back. Shame you had to go through this in the first place.

Since you are still concerned about your neighbors, you might still want to consider a fence. Keeps them out of your yard and makes it harder for them to do anything to you or your dogs.

Anyway, I am so glad they are home.

Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
everbellUser is Offline
Kanata, ON
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MH
Posts:3180


08/07/2009 9:52 AM  
I'm so happy for you and your pups! Seems common sense prevailed!

Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
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