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Subject: A tragic thing
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TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
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MH
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07/29/2009 2:50 PM  
That is a different situation, which in itself raises a myriad of questions and points to be made, but the difference is that at least the UPS guy had a legitimate reason to walk onto - to deliver the packet. In vale46's case, the intruder was an uninvited dog, a repeat offender at that, that had no business on the property - of course dogs don't recognize our property boundaries, hence, the owners are responsible for controlling their dogs accordingly, a responsibility that was neglected here. By the owners of [unfortunate] Bear, not vale46!

I would also fight to get anything they are now in the process of putting "on record" stricken from the record, in regards to the dogs being deemed "high risk". Because once there is a "record" and something else happens (God forbid but as we see here it can happen in the strangest ways and it doesn't seem to matter who was ultimately at fault), that's usually the end of the dog.


To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4476


07/29/2009 3:18 PM  
I'm behind you on this but let's face it. A dog is dead b/c one of your dogs killed it. Unsupervised, your dogs did something you would swear your dogs would never do. But, we really don't know our dogs until we see them in different pressure situations. Can you say what your dogs would do if another dog wondered back ther or a child?
You live in this house for 3 weeks. No one really knows you or your dogs.

An electric fence prevents your dogs from leaving but not anyone else from entering. You would be smart to put up a fence and a sign.

Hope you get your dogs back,what did your lawyer say?



"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
snipsUser is Offline
n.ga.
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07/29/2009 3:35 PM  

One of my dogs bit someone on my property years ago, and they went to the hospitol for a check up. Just barely broke the skin. BUT, animal control did not take my dogs, because a Dr was involved I had to meet with athorities and anim control for a hearing.  If it was ruled my fault and a complaint was lodged total of 3 times my dogs would have been destroyed.  Fortunatly the person did not show up and they said it was not my fault and an control vouched for how I kept my dogs.  It seems very strange that they just come take your dogs, esp after anim control seemed fine with them.   Good luck.


brenda
MarieUser is Offline
Wisconsin
MH
MH
Posts:2721


07/29/2009 4:13 PM  

Here is Rocky's little fenced in backyard world. My husband was not happy when I was planning this fence, but afterwards, he said it was the best thing I ever did. He would not have believed it in the world. Nice to not have to worry about Rocky going here and there and getting into trouble.


Marie and Rocky, a tall, high energy GSP
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab18/Annette_Merryfield/100_0285.jpg?t=1287205231
MarieUser is Offline
Wisconsin
MH
MH
Posts:2721


07/29/2009 4:16 PM  

A broader view!! We do alot of tennisball toss in this direction!!


Marie and Rocky, a tall, high energy GSP
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab18/Annette_Merryfield/100_0285.jpg?t=1287205231
MarieUser is Offline
Wisconsin
MH
MH
Posts:2721


07/29/2009 4:21 PM  
Wonder if anyone can post pics of their GSPs in their backyard fences for different fencing ideas??? It is great to see different types of fences as one type a fence may not be good for someone as another.

Marie and Rocky, a tall, high energy GSP
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab18/Annette_Merryfield/100_0285.jpg?t=1287205231
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
MH
MH
Posts:7927


07/29/2009 4:44 PM  
vale46 - What part of the country do you live in? In some areas, all it takes is a neighbors complaint to get animal control out and not allot more to get them to take the dogs. It is also getting worse as Dave alluded to in his post. I recommend to anyone that asks, put in a fence and do not use the invisible fences. The invisible fences may work fine for keeping your dog contained, but not keeping any unwanted animals or people out of your yard. Be careful putting up a dangerous dog sign because in some states if you have the sign and your dog bites someone then you are liable because the sign is an indicator that you know the dog was dangerous. Without the sign, you are not liable on the first offense because you in theory were not aware your dog could be dangerous. Just a warning.

I think it is extremely odd that animal control would say the dogs were ok and then later come back and pick them up as dangerous. That is why I said get the report and see what they really said. I have seen many reports where the animal control folks were disingenuous which is why I cautioned about letting them into your house, etc. There have been instances where they came out to investigate one thing and used something they saw in the house as justification for other actions. I would strongly recommend you get something in writing from the vet that treated Bear since he according to your earlier post seemed to be on your side. I would also move forward on the fence as Marie suggested as many times having a prevention plan speaks volumes. I do not think from the posts that your dogs were at fault, but in today's litigous climate and also with all the animal rights wackos out there, we need to do everything we can to protect our rights as dog owners. The more you have to arm yourself when you go to the hearing, the better off you and your dogs will be.

Another idea, see if your breeder will speak to the temperament of her dogs and their progeny. Even better if any have had temperament testing or are doing things like therapy dog work. Again good luck!!

Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
Deb OrpenUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:168


07/29/2009 5:03 PM  

Vale46,

I'm very sorry how this has turned out for you and your dogs now in quarantine. 

Every state's 'dangerous dog law' is different, and last year PA included dogs attacking cats.  Google dangerous dog law and your state and it should come up - might take some manuevering to get to your state's official and most current document - and print it out.  Also Animal Law is becoming a specialty so you may want to contact your state's Bar Assn or Animal Law Society for a referral in case your current attorney is not well versed in dog law.

Deb Orpen

everbellUser is Offline
Kanata, ON
MH
MH
Posts:3180


07/29/2009 5:56 PM  

Wow ... I am so glad I live in Canada. We are not nearly as litigious here and this would likely be considered a nuisance case and thrown out of court. We are not as prone to having stray or wandering dogs in our neighbourhood since we mostly have pretty responsible dog owners in terms of keeping their dogs under control (but don't get me started on the picking up poop issue !!!).

I agree that going forward with a fence (a wood privacy fence, if you can afford it) is probably your best course of action.

This is a picture of our privacy fence.

It sucks that you are left picking up the bill not only for Bear's treatment, but also for the fence. What a terrible introduction to your new neighbourhood. It might also help to get sworn affidavits from previous neighbours attesting to your dogs good behaviour.

I am so p***ed off on your behalf right now!!!


Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures
TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
MH
MH
Posts:2387


07/29/2009 6:21 PM  
Be careful putting up a dangerous dog sign because in some states if you have the sign and your dog bites someone then you are liable because the sign is an indicator that you know the dog was dangerous.


Check the local laws first. In some jurisdictions, a Beware of Dog sign will make you LESS liable because it clearly warns about the presence of a dog. My American Bulldog's brother was shot twice by a police officer that climbed the fence of the property to talk to the owner, despite the Beware of Dog signs, then got scared when Beans came around the corner and backed the officer up against the fence. He didn't growl much less attack, but he was shot. The dog survived because even the idiot officer immediately realized that the law was not on his side and called animal control to transport the bleeding dog to the vet school for treatment.

To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
Deb OrpenUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:168


07/29/2009 6:46 PM  

The first paragragh is correct - there are other signs available at pet supply places that simply have ' Dog in Yard ' which alerts people to the presence of a dog.  'Beware of Dog' signs are best utilized when posted as a warning and there is no dog on the property.

Deb Orpen

Posted By TessaGA on 07/29/2009 6:21 PM
 

Be careful putting up a dangerous dog sign because in some states if you have the sign and your dog bites someone then you are liable because the sign is an indicator that you know the dog was dangerous.


Check the local laws first. In some jurisdictions, a Beware of Dog sign will make you LESS liable because it clearly warns about the presence of a dog. My American Bulldog's brother was shot twice by a police officer that climbed the fence of the property to talk to the owner, despite the Beware of Dog signs, then got scared when Beans came around the corner and backed the officer up against the fence. He didn't growl much less attack, but he was shot. The dog survived because even the idiot officer immediately realized that the law was not on his side and called animal control to transport the bleeding dog to the vet school for treatment.



 

MelBUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:1217


07/29/2009 7:07 PM  
I know I was told by my house insurer not to use Beware of the dog signs. They said if I did I was admitting my dogs were dangerous and my home owners policy could be cancelled should the dogs do something. They said to use No Trespassing signs instead, that way if someone was stupid enough to reach over the fence, they have now trespassed into a marked area and THEY are liable for that.
TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
MH
MH
Posts:2387


07/29/2009 7:38 PM  
America can be so screwed up...you can have guns in the house and shoot an intruder but if your dog attacks an intruder it is deemed "high risk" and confiscated or put down.

To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4476


07/30/2009 6:08 AM  
Actually,it depends on where in the house or property you shoot them. If you shoot someone in the bedroom you'd better drag their body to the living room.
I like the No Trespassing sign idea. But, animals can't read. A fence and a sign should do the trick. Hope there are no fence zoning laws in the neighborhood.
I wish we could get an update,this is getting thicker than pea soup.


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
MH
MH
Posts:2387


07/30/2009 6:38 AM  
Fence zoning laws...can it get any more ironic?

It's only been two days but I sure hope they got the dogs back by now.


To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
MarieUser is Offline
Wisconsin
MH
MH
Posts:2721


07/30/2009 8:06 AM  

Think if you build a solid fence in your backyard, that should do it. Don't think you will need a sign as our GSPs have a deep, gaurdy bark and that should be warning enough for outsiders not to enter  Good luck and hope your GSPs come home soon. The pain in your heart has to be unbelievalbe with them gone. Still deep in my prayers.


Marie and Rocky, a tall, high energy GSP
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab18/Annette_Merryfield/100_0285.jpg?t=1287205231
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
MH
MH
Posts:7927


07/30/2009 8:08 AM  
pixie - In Texas the person only house to be inside the house. So, if they are in the front door entrance you drag them inside. Can't shoot them if they are just on your property somewhere, they must be in the house. They don't make a distinction between bedroom and other rooms thank goodness.

Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4476


07/30/2009 9:05 AM  
I think I like Texas!


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
dnauerUser is Offline
Colorado Springs, CO
MH
MH
Posts:175


07/30/2009 9:21 AM  

Colorado has a "make my day" law also for intruders inside the house (anywhere inside the house), and recent court rulings has extended this to outside the house in some instances (last year a very drunk college student was shot dead outside of a woman's house because he was forcibly trying to enter the house yelling, beating on windows and doors -- he thought he had been locked out of his house but was at the wrong house which was similar to his but one block down -- the woman, who was terrified, shot him and was released based on this law).

Regardless, dog attacks inside the house would fall under different laws -- and bottom line is the AR community is going to make this harder and harder.  I too am hoping our friend on this list gets this resolved -- neighbor problems are tough to deal with especially if animals are involved.  And this case just doesn't seem fair.  I'm going to be curious how the animal control folks can visit and rule one way, then reverse it based on hearsay -- sounds like an AR-like influence by the upper management to me --

Dave


Dave in Colorado
Voyager GSPs
"If there are no dogs in heaven, when I die, I want to go where they went" -- Will Rogers
TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
MH
MH
Posts:2387


07/30/2009 9:43 AM  

This site may be helpful:

www.dogbitelaw.com/

 


To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
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